what happens if you order a BMW
I am planning to buy a second BMW and I want to understand how things work.
So I understand if I want to buy a car on the lot, it would be easier to negotiate price.
If I need to have the exact option packages I need to order one and wait for some time until it is delivered.
I want to ask a few questions
1: How much rooms of negotiation if you order one. Say if you buy one from the lot you got Invoice price, how much more do you need to pay to order one?
2: Do you have a fixed/negotiated price and that price can never change? Or that is not true(so if, say, eco credit is over then your price could change?)
Thanks!
So I understand if I want to buy a car on the lot, it would be easier to negotiate price.
If I need to have the exact option packages I need to order one and wait for some time until it is delivered.
I want to ask a few questions
1: How much rooms of negotiation if you order one. Say if you buy one from the lot you got Invoice price, how much more do you need to pay to order one?
2: Do you have a fixed/negotiated price and that price can never change? Or that is not true(so if, say, eco credit is over then your price could change?)
Thanks!
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1. Just as much as on the lot, unless the one on the lot is a config. that no one wants, then they will try to dump it for cheap (for example, an X5 without heated seats in the Northeast)
2. Price is fixed when you put a deposit down and you get a build number and such. Eco Credit and stuff are locked in when you place the order. Price won't change unless the dealer sucks or you change the order.
Custom order to X5 in your driveway is about a month, depending on if your dealer has an open build slot for a car. 35i will be much easier to get than a 50i or 35d. The 35d is popular, and the 50i is rarer. The 35i is the most built model.
2. Price is fixed when you put a deposit down and you get a build number and such. Eco Credit and stuff are locked in when you place the order. Price won't change unless the dealer sucks or you change the order.
Custom order to X5 in your driveway is about a month, depending on if your dealer has an open build slot for a car. 35i will be much easier to get than a 50i or 35d. The 35d is popular, and the 50i is rarer. The 35i is the most built model.
Welcome to help.
BMW Doesn't charge dealers a specific fee for orderin a car vs buying a car, (they encourage custom orders) however some dealers tend to makeup random fees from thin air (avoid them like the plague). Invoice pricing depends on what car ur ordering. Some cars such as the diesel usually can be had below invoice due to additional incentives.
BMW Doesn't charge dealers a specific fee for orderin a car vs buying a car, (they encourage custom orders) however some dealers tend to makeup random fees from thin air (avoid them like the plague). Invoice pricing depends on what car ur ordering. Some cars such as the diesel usually can be had below invoice due to additional incentives.
Use bmwconfig.com to build your car and calculate the invoice price. You should allow somewhere between $500-$1000 in mark up over invoice. If you are willing to pick up the vehicle in Santa Barbara you should contact Jon Shafer. He is a sponsor here and everyone seems to recommend him highly.
I ordered a 2013 X5 3.5 this past spring; contacted a dealer through a buyer's service (Washington Consumer Checkbook), went through the dealer that had the lowest price over invoice. He just asked me to email him the specs (color, packages,etc) and he emailed me the invoice price. Once he got a build number I put down a $1000. deposit, told him I wanted to do PCD, and when the vehicle was approaching completion went in 2 weks before the PCD, paid the rest, got my plates, and went down to South Carolina on May 8 to pick up the X5. I was not charged the fee I see some people pay for the CA's training. Oddly enough, between the time I put down the deposit and the few weeks unyil I paid for the finished X5, the salesman had left the dealership and I was assigned a new saleswoman who I assume made a decent commission with very little work. At no time did they want to sell me a vehicle they had on their lot (there were some X5's from 2012 still there). No pressure to "take one home today".
+1 to all comments above.
-use BMW config
-add 500 to the invoice price for a dealers profit
-apply incentives applicable to your vehicle choice after the invoice + 500
Traditionally you would expect that cars on a lot
Are cheaper, but usually the opposite is true on BMWs. Most cars that are ordered are ok for most buyers, so they move them well, thus ur pricing on those would be similar to a custom order, hence why settle. However if ur purchasing a car that's outdated or a combo of some unique options then that would be a case where the deal to be had would be better then a custom order.
-use BMW config
-add 500 to the invoice price for a dealers profit
-apply incentives applicable to your vehicle choice after the invoice + 500
Traditionally you would expect that cars on a lot
Are cheaper, but usually the opposite is true on BMWs. Most cars that are ordered are ok for most buyers, so they move them well, thus ur pricing on those would be similar to a custom order, hence why settle. However if ur purchasing a car that's outdated or a combo of some unique options then that would be a case where the deal to be had would be better then a custom order.
I actually think paradoxically you do better with an order...
'Lot cars' are the sales staff's sole opportunity to make a profit.... They usually try to wring the max out of these, knowing that if they find someone that NEEDS one this weekend, they can squeeze $2k on the deal...whereas an order you are usually dealing with (usually) a different salesman, maybe dedicated to low profit/higher volumes (a so called internet or fleet manager).
Now dealers will TELL you they can make a better deal on the lot car simply because they are trained to sell what they have.
my 2 cents
'Lot cars' are the sales staff's sole opportunity to make a profit.... They usually try to wring the max out of these, knowing that if they find someone that NEEDS one this weekend, they can squeeze $2k on the deal...whereas an order you are usually dealing with (usually) a different salesman, maybe dedicated to low profit/higher volumes (a so called internet or fleet manager).
Now dealers will TELL you they can make a better deal on the lot car simply because they are trained to sell what they have.
my 2 cents
I am in same position. Some thoughts. Just because you are dealing with an upscale product doesn't mean that the sales person won't use the same tactics as the Ford guy. The wolf on sheepskin clothing... Prior to going to dealer I went to Emunds and got TMV for car I wanted and value for my trade. Took pictures of the two pages and put on iPad so I could refer to it at dealership. I never did. Got caught up in the heat of the moment and let my emotions get in the way. Don't think I am different then most people in this regard. The moment you walk thru the door you need to be on guard.
After an hour I left with the out the door price less 750 loyalty bonus written on the card. I called the next day and the sales guy said he isn't have anything about sirrus radio on his worksheet and that they were going to charge 3 to 400 dollars because they wouldn't
Have my trade till the new car came. I really wanted the car and said ok even though it w as now another $750 dollars. How can I be so stupid?
I told him I would be in a few days later. I started to think more about the whole experience and went on line to see dealer reviews. They were pretty poor. Then I thought about the whole experience ( they should have calculated fact they would not have my trade to sell till new car came plus the sirrus radio , just giving me price in business card) and I got pissed. They were definitely "gaming" me. How naive am I?
I am going to the other dealer in town to get the car. I am taking a friend as a way of leveling the playing field along with the edmunds info on a piece of paper. I will get everything in writing and if not I will walk away. The thing with the friend is they don't have the emotion issue to deal with and can help you be more objective.
After an hour I left with the out the door price less 750 loyalty bonus written on the card. I called the next day and the sales guy said he isn't have anything about sirrus radio on his worksheet and that they were going to charge 3 to 400 dollars because they wouldn't
Have my trade till the new car came. I really wanted the car and said ok even though it w as now another $750 dollars. How can I be so stupid?
I told him I would be in a few days later. I started to think more about the whole experience and went on line to see dealer reviews. They were pretty poor. Then I thought about the whole experience ( they should have calculated fact they would not have my trade to sell till new car came plus the sirrus radio , just giving me price in business card) and I got pissed. They were definitely "gaming" me. How naive am I?
I am going to the other dealer in town to get the car. I am taking a friend as a way of leveling the playing field along with the edmunds info on a piece of paper. I will get everything in writing and if not I will walk away. The thing with the friend is they don't have the emotion issue to deal with and can help you be more objective.
Great thread. One of those seemingly obvious questions that gets overlooked.
Re: dealer reviews - not sure what to make of them. Some salespeople seem to have gobs of 5 star ratings on dealerrater - wonder if they place them themselves since they are so incredibly positive over and over.
Go to other review sites like Yelp! They will probably be more accurate.
Really? Do people really think one person's sales experience will be predictive of theirs?!?!?
So much of how you get treated in the sales process is driven by YOU, that a review by another buyer is virtually useless.... what if the person doesn't know that "$100 under MSRP" is a screwing??? What if the person likes the fact that the salesmen called them Miss, and offered them water or soda?? They may love their salesman- but you might hate him.
I've had great experiences with buddies at car dealers...and have been sitting there listening to another buyer getting drug through the coals on a deal... does my positive count? I can rate a few salesmen highly- but I can guarantee that if they were to sense a newb was coming in with money in their pocket, determined to close a deal today, they would wring those dollars out of them. Even when I was able to get a few hundred over cost.
I may sound preachy, but you must select the salesperson remotely- via the phone or email, or both- by screening them with the expectation that you are "looking for a deal pretty close to invoice, maybe 500 or so over"...if they blow you off, you pass. If they engage, explain you are working with a few other dealers, but would like to work locally- "provided it wont be a waste of my time or yours, I can swing by and we can talk". Again, you are setting expectations, AND letting them know that if they pull the usually you will be gone and buying elsewhere. never say "I want to buy today"...not even, "I am willing to buy today of the price is right"...
Just like salesmanship is managing customers, manipulating feelings, etc, etc, SO IS NEGOTIATING.
here is one technique: create a 'deal' at another out of the area dealership- perhaps 'near my sister who I visit a lot'... tell them it is a great deal, but since you will be getting it serviced here locally, they should get a shot at it. Don't draw a hard line in the sand even....they may come within $200... then say, heck, by the time I drive one car there and two home, and the hassle...'fine, lets do it'.....all these little white lies are designed to create a plausible alternative for you, in the mind of the salesman. IF he wants the sale he will have to accommodate your alternatives to some extent. And of course you will need to be willing to walk.
Just some ideas, sitting by the pool here...
A
So much of how you get treated in the sales process is driven by YOU, that a review by another buyer is virtually useless.... what if the person doesn't know that "$100 under MSRP" is a screwing??? What if the person likes the fact that the salesmen called them Miss, and offered them water or soda?? They may love their salesman- but you might hate him.
I've had great experiences with buddies at car dealers...and have been sitting there listening to another buyer getting drug through the coals on a deal... does my positive count? I can rate a few salesmen highly- but I can guarantee that if they were to sense a newb was coming in with money in their pocket, determined to close a deal today, they would wring those dollars out of them. Even when I was able to get a few hundred over cost.
I may sound preachy, but you must select the salesperson remotely- via the phone or email, or both- by screening them with the expectation that you are "looking for a deal pretty close to invoice, maybe 500 or so over"...if they blow you off, you pass. If they engage, explain you are working with a few other dealers, but would like to work locally- "provided it wont be a waste of my time or yours, I can swing by and we can talk". Again, you are setting expectations, AND letting them know that if they pull the usually you will be gone and buying elsewhere. never say "I want to buy today"...not even, "I am willing to buy today of the price is right"...
Just like salesmanship is managing customers, manipulating feelings, etc, etc, SO IS NEGOTIATING.
here is one technique: create a 'deal' at another out of the area dealership- perhaps 'near my sister who I visit a lot'... tell them it is a great deal, but since you will be getting it serviced here locally, they should get a shot at it. Don't draw a hard line in the sand even....they may come within $200... then say, heck, by the time I drive one car there and two home, and the hassle...'fine, lets do it'.....all these little white lies are designed to create a plausible alternative for you, in the mind of the salesman. IF he wants the sale he will have to accommodate your alternatives to some extent. And of course you will need to be willing to walk.
Just some ideas, sitting by the pool here...
A
Well said. And less grouchy than usual. Haha...I kiiiid, I kiiiiid. Must be the chlorine.
Really? Do people really think one person's sales experience will be predictive of theirs?!?!?
So much of how you get treated in the sales process is driven by YOU, that a review by another buyer is virtually useless.... what if the person doesn't know that "$100 under MSRP" is a screwing??? What if the person likes the fact that the salesmen called them Miss, and offered them water or soda?? They may love their salesman- but you might hate him.
I've had great experiences with buddies at car dealers...and have been sitting there listening to another buyer getting drug through the coals on a deal... does my positive count? I can rate a few salesmen highly- but I can guarantee that if they were to sense a newb was coming in with money in their pocket, determined to close a deal today, they would wring those dollars out of them. Even when I was able to get a few hundred over cost.
I may sound preachy, but you must select the salesperson remotely- via the phone or email, or both- by screening them with the expectation that you are "looking for a deal pretty close to invoice, maybe 500 or so over"...if they blow you off, you pass. If they engage, explain you are working with a few other dealers, but would like to work locally- "provided it wont be a waste of my time or yours, I can swing by and we can talk". Again, you are setting expectations, AND letting them know that if they pull the usually you will be gone and buying elsewhere. never say "I want to buy today"...not even, "I am willing to buy today of the price is right"...
Just like salesmanship is managing customers, manipulating feelings, etc, etc, SO IS NEGOTIATING.
here is one technique: create a 'deal' at another out of the area dealership- perhaps 'near my sister who I visit a lot'... tell them it is a great deal, but since you will be getting it serviced here locally, they should get a shot at it. Don't draw a hard line in the sand even....they may come within $200... then say, heck, by the time I drive one car there and two home, and the hassle...'fine, lets do it'.....all these little white lies are designed to create a plausible alternative for you, in the mind of the salesman. IF he wants the sale he will have to accommodate your alternatives to some extent. And of course you will need to be willing to walk.
Just some ideas, sitting by the pool here...
A
There were probably adult beverages involved during the crafting of his last posting
Ard has a good point
I have always done everything by email with car yards and dealers. I don't even give them my phone number until we get very close to a deal. Once I have received a written offer from them, I start to discuss my trade in. I have even had them give me a ballpark value for a trade in by email.....some don't even put a disclaimer on the trade offer!
Since I keep my vehicles immaculate, no dogs or kids, no dealer can ever go less than they offered by email for my trade.
By the time I actually visit the dealer, the deal is virtually done, no pressure, no sales gimmick, just an easy business deal. Frankly, I don't want to have a personal relationship with any dealer, I just want the car and the less they "know" about me the better. Its business, not a lifelong friendship!
I have always done everything by email with car yards and dealers. I don't even give them my phone number until we get very close to a deal. Once I have received a written offer from them, I start to discuss my trade in. I have even had them give me a ballpark value for a trade in by email.....some don't even put a disclaimer on the trade offer!
Since I keep my vehicles immaculate, no dogs or kids, no dealer can ever go less than they offered by email for my trade.
By the time I actually visit the dealer, the deal is virtually done, no pressure, no sales gimmick, just an easy business deal. Frankly, I don't want to have a personal relationship with any dealer, I just want the car and the less they "know" about me the better. Its business, not a lifelong friendship!
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