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Freedom isn't free!!
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CA's, I'm interested in how the general population compares with us fanatical 'Fester types.

With all the information that's out there, what percentage of your dealership's customers are you seeing drive really hard bargains? By "hard bargain" I'd say meaning they come in knowing the invoice price pretty close and will only make a deal at $1000 or less over invoice. Do you see many that really insist on pushing it to $500 or less over invoice?

What percentage of customers would you say are satisfied to make a deal at 25% of the difference between invoice and MSRP off of MSRP? 50% of the difference off MSRP?

Do you see a significant difference in customer behavior in this regard between 1er and 3er buyers and 5er and up buyers?

Do your customers seem to appreciate the value of the additional performance BMW offers enough that they adjust the expectations of what kind of deal they might make or do they seem to look at it no differently than if they were buying a Ford, Chevrolet, Honda or Toyota?

Thanks!

Phil
 

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Chairman of the Bored
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I'm not in the car business ( or any business ) so I shouldn't chime in but just for fun I'll hazzard a guess that no more than 20% "drive a hard bargain". Everybody thinks they are driving a hard bargain but most start off at champagne opening prices, i.e. way too high although the average person thinks car dealers have much larger markups than reality so maybe I'm all wet. I have noticed that my wealthy friends really aren't all that concerned with price, they feel buying a car is like ordering a pizza. If they're paying $800 a month for a lease and they go in for a new vehicle and the payment is about the same for a similar car they say "where do I sign". One friend had a Lexus and when the lease was up they wanted something like 50% more for a new one so he called me and I put him in a BMW 535i for similar money to what he had been paying. So the bottom line is this type of customer is a lot more interested doing a quick deal than bargaining with a car dealer.
 

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I, too, have wondered the same thing, especially as it relates to a possible imminent (or worsening, if you believe we are in a de facto one right now) depression. Being able to get rid of a lease on a site like Swap-a-lease or Leasetrader if I drive a really hard bargain (which I have) is important and should not be too difficult, but you never know. Could get even worse before it gets better; in fact, I think that's quite likely--the main variables are a) how much worse, and b) for how long before things start to improve.
 

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I think that in the present economic climate, many potential buyers are just staying home. I think the sales declines YOY are the proof of my belief. Consumers are systematically de-leveraging themselves right now. That means no vacations to Cancun, no new car(s), and, and, and.
 

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I think that in the present economic climate, many potential buyers are just staying home. I think the sales declines YOY are the proof of my belief. Consumers are systematically de-leveraging themselves right now. That means no vacations to Cancun, no new car(s), and, and, and.
It always comes too late... if only they'd exercised more self-restraint before this economic crisis. :tsk:
 

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It always comes too late... if only they'd exercised more self-restraint before this economic crisis. :tsk:
Bingo!

I'm actually buying some things these days. There are ridiculous deals out there and if you actually need or really, really want something within reason I see no better time than now to get it.

Example - Been talking about getting new carpeting in the house for over a year with my wife. What would have been a $11,000 undertaking a year or two ago is now going to run me about $7500 - 8000. It needs to be done at some point because the carpet is wearing and the kids have found some creative ways to turn my tan carpet red and blue in some spots so why not now? I could wait a year but it has to be done at some point.

The same thing goes for a car. Yes, now is not a "comfortable" time to spend money with lots of uncertainty out there but if you have a 9 year old car, it's starting to need repairs and is out of warranty, and you need some new features, etc. why wait? Do it now....and yes, drive a hard bargain or take your precious dollars someplace else.
 

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Knowing is 1/2 the Battle
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Bingo!

The same thing goes for a car. Yes, now is not a "comfortable" time to spend money with lots of uncertainty out there but if you have a 9 year old car, it's starting to need repairs and is out of warranty, and you need some new features, etc. why wait? Do it now....and yes, drive a hard bargain or take your precious dollars someplace else.
I had a 13 y/o car that I just sold today... that was my daily driver so I'm looking to get a new one.... it was a Pontiac Grand AM and I loved that car because it had firm steering and firm suspension... I don't wanna buy Japanese because their steering and suspension are too soft for me... so I test drove a Pontiac G6 Coupe... not bad... Anyone has an idea as to what kind of deal I can get? The invoice is $24,250 and they're offering either 0% or a $3,250 rebate. I'm thinking of offering $350/month for 60 months (that's equivalent to $19,750+tax @ 0% APR)... that's my budget....is this reasonable given the current climate?

Thanks
 

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I had a 13 y/o car that I just sold today... that was my daily driver so I'm looking to get a new one.... it was a Pontiac Grand AM and I loved that car because it had firm steering and firm suspension... I don't wanna buy Japanese because their steering and suspension are too soft for me... so I test drove a Pontiac G6 Coupe... not bad... Anyone has an idea as to what kind of deal I can get? The invoice is $24,250 and they're offering either 0% or a $3,250 rebate. I'm thinking of offering $350/month for 60 months (that's equivalent to $19,750+tax @ 0% APR)... that's my budget....is this reasonable given the current climate?
Not meaning to sound sarcastic, but your question would probably be more relevant on a Pontiac forum. Invoice is really the starting point in your negotiations. The only way you are going to get a dealer to sell at less than invoice is if the car has been on the lot forever or the dealer is going out of business, or if there are manufacturer incentives in the picture. In 2003 I purchased a Corvette (since sold). The starting point with the dealer was Invoice + $1,000. I then deducted $3,000 in factory to dealer marketing cash, $2,000 in GM MasterCard credits and $1,000 in Owner Loyalty Cash (I was leasing a GMC Denali at the time) for a net deal of Invoice - $5,000.

You really need to go to a Pontiac forum to get an honest/realistic answer to your question.
 

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Call Ivan @ 973-780-9541
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The invoice is $24,250 and they're offering either 0% or a $3,250 rebate. I'm thinking of offering $350/month for 60 months (that's equivalent to $19,750+tax @ 0% APR)... that's my budget....is this reasonable given the current climate?

Thanks
Why should a dealer (or any business) take a 20% loss over and above any incentives?
If the new vehicle is not in your budget, why not search for a suitable used one. It will not have 0% but, used domestic resale values are at an all time low.
 

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Call Ivan @ 973-780-9541
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I was just checking, because I thought there might be some money-back to the dealer that is not disclosed; also the car has been on the lot for 4 months.
Car manufacturers usually give no further support to dealers or customers when 0% financing is utilized. The dealer profit margin on a new $25K car is somewhere south of $1,500. That's why I suggested looking into the same model you're interested in but, as a pre-owned one. I think it is the best way for you to get the car you want at the price/payment you want. The domestic dealers are hurting so much that some feel they have no choice but, to accept deals that make no sense.

By the way, Deep Sea Blue is a very nice 5-Series color, rare too :)
 

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Freedom isn't free!!
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Discussion Starter #13
CA's, I'm interested in how the general population compares with us fanatical 'Fester types.

With all the information that's out there, what percentage of your dealership's customers are you seeing drive really hard bargains? By "hard bargain" I'd say meaning they come in knowing the invoice price pretty close and will only make a deal at $1000 or less over invoice. Do you see many that really insist on pushing it to $500 or less over invoice?

What percentage of customers would you say are satisfied to make a deal at 25% of the difference between invoice and MSRP off of MSRP? 50% of the difference off MSRP?

Do you see a significant difference in customer behavior in this regard between 1er and 3er buyers and 5er and up buyers?

Do your customers seem to appreciate the value of the additional performance BMW offers enough that they adjust the expectations of what kind of deal they might make or do they seem to look at it no differently than if they were buying a Ford, Chevrolet, Honda or Toyota?

Thanks!

Phil
Why should a dealer (or any business) take a 20% loss over and above any incentives?
If the new vehicle is not in your budget, why not search for a suitable used one. It will not have 0% but, used domestic resale values are at an all time low.
Hello, Ivan. What is your experience regarding the questions I created this thread for?

Thanks.

Phil
 

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Call Ivan @ 973-780-9541
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Hello, Ivan. What is your experience regarding the questions I created this thread for?

Thanks.

Phil
Hello Phil, I have no idea how answer in percentages but, permit me to generalize for a bit:

Every client is different but, here are a few "types" off the top of my head...

Ones that negotiate from budget. For example... "I want that $52K MSRP 335xi Coupe for $399/mo with nothing down." Where are you getting those numbers from? "That's what I can afford." To me this would not be a "hard bargain," this is impossible and the client would need to be shown how lease/finance figures are generated and offered a different BMW model then was originally wanted in order to better suit their budget if they're going to get a BMW.

Ones that research/use the internet to help them with the negotiation of price aspect in a transaction and/or the other aspects such as availability, equipment level, etc. This type of client would probably the most apt to drive a "hard bargain" as you describe.

Ones that care about how they are treated above all other concerns. This kind of client could also drive a "hard bargain" but, do so less, if at all when dealing with a salesperson they genuinely like and feel is doing the right thing by them.

Hope this helps answer your question(s) some.

By the way, nice E46 ZHP you have there :beerchug:
 

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When I bought my car the CA was so desperate I probably could've gotten less than $500 over invoice . I felt $500 over invoice was more than fair, everybody has needs and deserves to make a living within reason. My aim is usually $1000 over invoice if I don't get it usually I walk out and keep shopping.
 

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Freedom isn't free!!
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Discussion Starter #16
Hello Phil, I have no idea how answer in percentages but, permit me to generalize for a bit:

Every client is different but, here are a few "types" off the top of my head...

Ones that negotiate from budget. For example... "I want that $52K MSRP 335xi Coupe for $399/mo with nothing down." Where are you getting those numbers from? "That's what I can afford." To me this would not be a "hard bargain," this is impossible and the client would need to be shown how lease/finance figures are generated and offered a different BMW model then was originally wanted in order to better suit their budget if they're going to get a BMW.

Ones that research/use the internet to help them with the negotiation of price aspect in a transaction and/or the other aspects such as availability, equipment level, etc. This type of client would probably the most apt to drive a "hard bargain" as you describe.

Ones that care about how they are treated above all other concerns. This kind of client could also drive a "hard bargain" but, do so less, if at all when dealing with a salesperson they genuinely like and feel is doing the right thing by them.

Hope this helps answer your question(s) some.

By the way, nice E46 ZHP you have there :beerchug:
Thanks and Thanks. Love my ZHP! Natural Brown and Imola ROCK!! (I just noticed you can't get Crimson red with the new M Sport package. Made me a little sad. But, I think I'd choose Lemans blue anyway, 'cause it's a unique M color.)

Yeah, I think the first type probably turn out not to be BMW customers as often as they do. They probably need to head over to Infiniti.....or Nissan. :D

So, of types two and three which would you say you see more of in your BMW store?
 

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Freedom isn't free!!
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Discussion Starter #18
CA's, I'm interested in how the general population compares with us fanatical 'Fester types.

With all the information that's out there, what percentage of your dealership's customers are you seeing drive really hard bargains? By "hard bargain" I'd say meaning they come in knowing the invoice price pretty close and will only make a deal at $1000 or less over invoice. Do you see many that really insist on pushing it to $500 or less over invoice?

What percentage of customers would you say are satisfied to make a deal at 25% of the difference between invoice and MSRP off of MSRP? 50% of the difference off MSRP?

Do you see a significant difference in customer behavior in this regard between 1er and 3er buyers and 5er and up buyers?

Do your customers seem to appreciate the value of the additional performance BMW offers enough that they adjust the expectations of what kind of deal they might make or do they seem to look at it no differently than if they were buying a Ford, Chevrolet, Honda or Toyota?

Thanks!

Phil
So, can I get any other of you fine CAs to chime in with your opinions/experiences? Please and thank you. :D
 

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So, can I get any other of you fine CAs to chime in with your opinions/experiences? Please and thank you. :D
Doesn't seem like the CAs want to share. I wonder why?
 

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I'll always share.everyone these days drive hard for the best deal.Some of my wealthiest customers squeeze until there's nothing left to give.This one couple buys 2 cars a year ( they have 5 grown kids,but were teens when we started working together 9 years ago ),so they buy two and trade two and what ever we say on the trades ,they always want 2K more,and we're not holding back anything,they do their homework.One year,they bought 3 different houses for 21 million ( downtown Chicago for 9,Miami for 8 and Barrington for 4 ).All of the ED people that contact me also want great deals,no one says " hey Irv,charge me a little more ".I also sell Hondas,Infiniti's,MB,Cadillac,Saab & Porsche and have lost deals for 100 -200 since we were at our bottom and other dealers would hear our numbers and beat us just to get the business,we've also taken deals the same way..If I had to give a percent of hard vs. easy,I would say 80- 20......btw,the other day I counted 55 emails from one of my nice ED customers,that's a lot of time that I don't get paid on.
 
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