what's everyone/anyone think of acura tl

eugeneDC/TX · 2002-02-21

type s or not... a friend of mine is dead set on getting it, but know nothing about the car past the horsepower.... (he's not into cars mechanically, just wants a nice car that goes fast)

jw

· #21 · Feb 21, 2002

Alan F said:
Our competitors are: A4, C320, IS300, Jag X-type (at least they'd like to think it was)

The TL's competitors are: ES300, I35 or someone looking to upgrade from a Maxima, Camry or Accord

I think you've got the competition a little wrong. Don't peg a certain model number to a specific segment in this blurred market. As you said, let's be open mined about this. The BMW E46's competition is all of those cars and more. Just about any 2/4 dr sedan in the luxury and near-luxury market between 30k-42k.

Obviously, I am proof of this. As I said earlier, I had all but signed the paperwork on the TL-S when I decided to test drive the 330i on a whim. Once I had the ultimate driving experience there was no looking back.

The only things that I would have liked in the 330i that the TL-S has is: More hp, nicer Nav system, better reliability, and most importantly lesser cost.

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AF

· #22 · Feb 21, 2002

jw said:
I think you've got the competition a little wrong. Don't peg a certain model number to a specific segment in this blurred market. As you said, let's be open mined about this. The BMW E46's competition is all of those cars and more. Just about any 2/4 dr sedan in the luxury and near-luxury market between 30k-42k.

Ok, Ok, I got your point . . . BUT (and that's a big BUT) all cars are built with a target segment in mind. Though you have a point that some do cross over into others they still have there main competition. If you don't agree with me, that is ok but then you are saying you don't agree with every car magazine either. They do comparison's all the time and you really don't find them comparing the TL to the 3 series or the ES300 to the A4 and so on and so on.

Let's back up a second jw, my main reason for jumping on what you said is the tone of your message sounded like you were bashing Acura. It's just like when someone calls a Lexus a jazzed-up toyota. I don't think it's just me when I say it sounds like you are knocking both Honda & Acura.

Maybe that wasn't your intention.

Also, not that I am directing this at you but it really bothers me when people that drive BMW's or any other brand knock other cars.

A car enthusiast appreciates all cars whether it's a Hyundai or a Ferrari.

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ashecnc

· #23 · Feb 21, 2002

Alan F said:
You & I agree ? ? I got a question for you . . . what don't we agree on bro
:thumb: :thumb:

:thumb:

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ayn

· #24 · Feb 22, 2002

Re: ha, my friend refuses to learn stick

eugeneDC/TX said:
oh, won't be able to make the driving school after all.... schedule and lack of funding.

no problem, they have one almost every month! just lemme know when u wanna go!

andrew - looking through your pic album admiring your m3 wheel and v1, and i noticed you had stock side mirrors... for some reason i thought you went to m3/sport-esque mirrors... oh well, i need me a v1, m3 wheel, and rear clears still... haha maybe i'll be lucky for my bday and get one of the three...

na, no M3 mirror, too expensive, need to get it painted and all, not worth it.

--Andrew

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ayn

· #25 · Feb 22, 2002

Re: Re: hey hey, let's slow this down a bit

Alan F said:
I was referring to other people that were knocking the Acura because they gave there opinion's that the Bimmer's are the best and the TL is nothing compared to it.

i hope that didnt include me, i love japanese cars for their reliability, and I love the S2000! i seriously don't think BMW are the best, no no no...

and it definitely seemed that Eugene's friend would appreciate a problemless TL much more than a BMW, so I suggested that he get the TL.

--Andrew

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· #26 · Feb 22, 2002

Re: Re: Re: hey hey, let's slow this down a bit

ayn said:
i hope that didnt include me, i love japanese cars for their reliability, and I love the S2000! i seriously don't think BMW are the best, no no no...

and it definitely seemed that Eugene's friend would appreciate a problemless TL much more than a BMW, so I suggested that he get the TL.

--Andrew

Didn't aim that message at you Andrew, as far as I'm concerned your :thumb:

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ayn

· #27 · Feb 22, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Re: hey hey, let's slow this down a bit

Alan F said:
Didn't aim that message at you Andrew, as far as I'm concerned your :thumb:

thank you, feeling much better now...

--Andrew

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ahekd

· #28 · Feb 22, 2002

Alan F said:
If you don't agree with me, that is ok but then you are saying you don't agree with every car magazine either. They do comparison's all the time and you really don't find them comparing the TL to the 3 series or the ES300 to the A4 and so on and so on.

Edmunds did a comparison on entry level sports sedans: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/46528/article.html

TL-s came first, 330i was second...the ES was not in the comparison, but thats because I don't think it is considered a "sports" sedan. Also, they wanted to compare the A4 too, but the 2002's were not available yet...

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Dan

· #29 · Feb 22, 2002

jw said:
Absolutely no comparison in the ride and handling between the two cars. Acura handles like a typical Honda (like crap) and the BMW handles like... well.. we all know how much fun it is!

I gave serious consideration to the TL-S and was ready to buy before discovering the BMW. Very happy I went with the bimmer.

The Acura TL is an entry level near luxury car that is nothing more than a juiced up Honda. This is reflected in the price.

As someone who has owned many Honda products, I completely disagree with you regarding your opinion of Honda's prowess in the handling department. Honda is an engineering - based company, and even their mainstream products are known for their balanced handling and fun-to-drive nature. The early Civics from the mid 1970's were excellent handling, almost go-kart like. I had a 1978 Civic, and a friend of mine who had a Mini back in the 70's drove my car and could not believe how well my Civic handled once I put a decent set of Michelins on it.

Back in the mid-90's, Car and Driver, after extensive comparison testing, declared that the previous generation Honda Prelude was the best handling car sold in America under $30K (they also voted the previous generation M3 to be the best handling car over $30K). My father owns a pristine 1995 Prelude, and I can assure you that it will run rings around an E46 in the handling department. The current generation Prelude handles even better.

My last Honda was a 1995 Accord EX. It would out corner a non-sport package E46, with less body roll and better turn in. However, the E36 will out handle the Accord, no question.

Finally, both the Honda S2000 and the Acura Integra (and RSX) are well known for their handling expertise. The Integra regularly beats the E46 in the road-racing events on Speedvision, and the S2000 will out handle any of the BMW Z cars, including the M roadster.

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AF

· #30 · Feb 22, 2002

ahekd said:
Edmunds did a comparison on entry level sports sedans: http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/46528/article.html

TL-s came first, 330i was second...the ES was not in the comparison, but thats because I don't think it is considered a "sports" sedan. Also, they wanted to compare the A4 too, but the 2002's were not available yet...

You've proved me wrong . . . good job (seriously). I am sure there is probably another magazine out there that also compared the TL to the 3 series.

Edmunds picked a very large group of vehicles that 'can' be competition if you want to consider it on a large scale but do you really consider all of those cars our competition ?

They should have broken that test into 2 segments of vehicles.
Smaller Sport sedans aimed towards performance & larger sport sedans aimed toards luxury.
Come on . . . even the Mazda Millenia & the Infiniti I30 were in that test.

I had a Millenia S and while it was a great car, I bought it at the time with totally different outlook in what I wanted in a car.

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ayn

· #31 · Feb 22, 2002

Dan said:
Finally, both the Honda S2000 and the Acura Integra (and RSX) are well known for their handling expertise. The Integra regularly beats the E46 in the road-racing events on Speedvision, and the S2000 will out handle any of the BMW Z cars, including the M roadster.

yup, S2000 handles like a go-cart, for experienced drivers only, so serious. the Type-R is the best handling FWD car. and let's not forget about the NSX! Honda ruled the F1 a while back, they know how to build cars that handle well.

--Andrew

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ed325i

· #32 · Feb 22, 2002

I love Honda / Acura, but the Prelude DOES NOT handle better than the E46 with sport package. I had a 88 Prelude 4ws, 92 Prelude 4WS, and a 97 Prelude Si (VTEC). Those cars handle very well, but all it took was one test drive to convince me to trade the Prelude in for my 328Ci.

I have also driven the TL-S in BMW's Test Drive event last summer. Nice car with good acceleration, but its braking and handling was not on par with the 330i, the C Class, or the IS300 that were there. As I stated before, the new LSD in the CL-S 6-speed may really improve its handling.

Ed

Dan said:
As someone who has owned many Honda products, I completely disagree with you regarding your opinion of Honda's prowess in the handling department. Honda is an engineering - based company, and even their mainstream products are known for their balanced handling and fun-to-drive nature. The early Civics from the mid 1970's were excellent handling, almost go-kart like. I had a 1978 Civic, and a friend of mine who had a Mini back in the 70's drove my car and could not believe how well my Civic handled once I put a decent set of Michelins on it.

Back in the mid-90's, Car and Driver, after extensive comparison testing, declared that the previous generation Honda Prelude was the best handling car sold in America under $30K (they also voted the previous generation M3 to be the best handling car over $30K). My father owns a pristine 1995 Prelude, and I can assure you that it will run rings around an E46 in the handling department. The current generation Prelude handles even better.

My last Honda was a 1995 Accord EX. It would out corner a non-sport package E46, with less body roll and better turn in. However, the E36 will out handle the Accord, no question.

Finally, both the Honda S2000 and the Acura Integra (and RSX) are well known for their handling expertise. The Integra regularly beats the E46 in the road-racing events on Speedvision, and the S2000 will out handle any of the BMW Z cars, including the M roadster.

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Dan

· #33 · Feb 23, 2002

IMO, handling is much more than just the raw numbers generated on the skid pad or the slalom. The subjective part of handling is what makes cornering so much fun for me - the feel of the car as you corner, feedback from the wheel, pedals and shifter, your confidence level while cornering fast, the feeling of oneness between driver and machine, etc, etc. I have driven cars that post great numbers but don't feel great going around corners, and visa-versa. My comments about the Prelude are the results of my seat-of-the-pants observations, comparing my seat time in the 1995 Prelude Si with my time spent in a number of E46s, and I stand by them. The Prelude, with its combination of a lower center of gravity, heavier steering than the horrible 2000 and 2001 mistake by BMW, more precise transmission (Honda's shifters and clutches are subjectively more precise IMO) and double wishbone suspension just feels better in the twisties to me.

Some of my favorite cars in the handling department don't generate world-class numbers, but they put a world-class grin on my face while ripping through the twisties. If you have ever had a spirited drive on a winding road in a Triumph Spitfire, MGB, Miata, Porsche 944, or Jaguar E-type, you know what I'm talking about.

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