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I currently have an '01 330xi, and am facing the decision whether to get a 328 or a 335 (sedan). Another thread talked about if the new 328 would have more power than my 330, and the general opinion seems to be no. The other factor is do I want a twin turbo.<o =""></o>
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I have never had a turbocharged engine, and don't really know much about them. I see several other posters saying no way, they will never drive a turbo. Why? What is the problem with them? If there is a controversy about them, why did BMW go the turbo route? If it's something I'm going to really regret, maybe I should stay away from it.<o =""></o>
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mmm... carbs!
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Turbos have a bad rap. In the past, they were thought to guzzle gas and provide jerky performance. Lots of lag with very sudden bump of power. Better implementation with smaller turbos and variable nozzle have resulted in much smoother power delivery with little noticeable lag.

Another issue with turbo engines is reliability. But often this is related to the design of the system. Turbos get very hot and require lubrication. Some were known to cook oil after shutdown. Hence automakers recommended that one idle the engine after a hard drive to allow the temps to settle before shutdown. Another problem is that engines weren't really built for the high pressures used. A turbo allows a larger bang in the engine and therefore, stronger components are required.

I wouldn't worry about modern turbos. Often these issues were on cheaper vehicles that used a small engine in conjunction with a huge single turbo with high pressures.
 

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LucasElectrics said:
If there is a controversy about them, why did BMW go the turbo route?


BMW was doing turbos before Volvo, Saab and Porsche.

As for the current iteration, it was placed on the back-burner by BMW more than once. The 540i had 290HP and was still going to cost more to build than a 535i so that probably has something to do with it. (A 300HP 5-series turbo 6 priced below a 290HP V8 would present an interesting challenge for the marketing department.)

A few weeks ago, I was driving behind a very nicely kept Volvo 740 Turbo of mid-late 1980s vintage that has something mounted next to the license plate you don't see every day... a Volvo 500,000 mile badge.

Autoweek said they didn't find any turbo-lag with the 335i.
 

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I do'nt make mistakes.
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Majikthese42 said:
BMW was doing turbos before Volvo, Saab and Porsche.
But not before Chevrolet :)
 

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Philosopher-king
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cwsqbm said:
But not before Chevrolet
or Oldsmobile....



I'd prefer the 335i, tho.
 

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For some reason whenever a car company puts turbo on the back of the car it gives me the impression that the car is veeerrry fast. Which is not so true in the case of the Audi A4 2.0T and MB C230 Kompressor. I think that Kompressor means turbo charged in german or does it mean supercharged??? (The MB especially which is slow as heck).....
 

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e60lover said:
For some reason whenever a car company puts turbo on the back of the car it gives me the impression that the car is veeerrry fast. Which is not so true in the case of the Audi A4 2.0T and MB C230 Kompressor. I think that Kompressor means turbo charged in german or does it mean supercharged??? (The MB especially which is slow as heck).....
Yes, I believe Kompressor indicates supercharging. The 230 kompressor is a mystery to me as well. It's not like they're getting anything special out of the forced-induction. :dunno:
 

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Not to be a buzz kill but according to the review by Edmunds the new 335 turbos don't make a "turbo whine"....I'm kind of bummed about that.
 

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MARCUS330i said:
Not to be a buzz kill but according to the review by Edmunds the new 335 turbos don't make a "turbo whine"....I'm kind of bummed about that.
Turbo whine is for ricers.
 

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Superchargers kinda suck, they use engine power to turn the compressor.. As in the case of a turbo, which uses exhaust pressure to turn the turbine.. No engine power loss..
 

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MARCUS330i said:
Not to be a buzz kill but according to the review by Edmunds the new 335 turbos don't make a "turbo whine"....I'm kind of bummed about that.
From Edmunds (http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=116129/pageNumber=1)

"Equally surprising is that there is no audible indication of turbocharging, either - the characteristic intake whoosh and turbo whine are completely absent, and there's no bypass valve chuffle, either. The only clue that there's something else going on other than normal aspiration is a slightly bassier exhaust note. That, and the wallop of the torque plateau, giving the 335i a linear thrust that pulls eagerly to the 7,000-rpm redline"

Raise your hands, would you rather have "wallop" or "whoosh"?

I vote for "wallop" :wave:
 

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My opinion of turbo charging is,forget about lag modern cars have over come that and the all comes down to the right turbo size the bigger the turbo the longer the impllers take to spin up so that is what turbo lag as far as i know,and im sure bmw (having done 2002 befor) know what there doing,lubrication on moder turbo car is not a problem as long as your willing to falk out for the modern Super Synthetic oil,plus most cars that I know of are fitted with whats knowen as "thermosyphon"which means oil still gets pumperd around the trubos after car has been switched off(no need for a turbo ideler).

As for fuel usage yes turbo cars use more see as they spin up(boost) the fuel gos to the dogs,plus most car makers say you should run high octan 98 stuff only due to turboed cars having high compresion ratio.

Sound like a rice,well most OEM blowoff vlaves quite and you wont here them,see ricers pay good money for those tish sounding blow off valves.

I rekon you'd be hard pressed to know this car would have a turbo if you know nothing about bmw.
 

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ryanzak said:
Superchargers kinda suck, they use engine power to turn the compressor.. As in the case of a turbo, which uses exhaust pressure to turn the turbine.. No engine power loss..
Well, there is less power loss with a turbo than a blower, but to say there is no power loss simply isn't true. When aspirating an automobile you have to think about exhaust as well as intake. Clogging the exhaust with a turbo does affect power, it is just easier to lessen the effect by simply changing the dynamics of the exhaust pipe.
 

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My $.02 worth, having owned three turbo cars:
- '89 Mazda MX-6 GT. Single turbo, and probably typical of earlier designs. Got only 145 hp from 2.3 liters. The turbo lag was enormous, which actually made it a lot of fun. Step down at around 2500 - 3000 and wait about three seconds for full torque to build. The car went well over 100,000 both in my hands and my son's, and the engine and turbo ran without incident.
- '93 RX-7 twin turbo. The two turbos ran sequentially, with the low rpm turbo showing up probably at about 2000 rpm, and the second one cutting in at 4500 to increase boost further. There was a 'lump' at 4500, and the car had drivability problems under light throttle and low rpm, as in normal traffic. However, the rotary engine put out 255 hp with lots of torque above 3000 and minimal lag,and the only problem in 121,000 miles was a leaky air hose.
- 2004 Volvo S60R. This was one big turbo with twin intercoolers. Lag was minimal, and the engine was capable of 300 hp from 2.5 liters, with the manual transmission. Unfortunately, mine had an automatic, and the very sophisticated and efficient electronic management system was used to bleed off boost to reduce torque and limit rpm's as needed to protect the undersized automatic transmission. This automatic version was very laggard (7.2 seconds 0 - 60) but very refined and versatile and suffered no problems of either drivability or reliability.

- I also had a 1998 Mazda Millenia S, which used a supercharger. Absolutely no lag, and very well behaved, getting 230 hp from 2.3 liters,which was not bad for its time. Superchargers are parisitic devices, unlike turbochargers, and seem to have fallen out of favort. That car went more than 40,000 miles with no problems.

I would not worry about the inherent reliability of either a turbo or a supercharger. You have to judge the entire design. Good design is about integrating all the elements, namely engine, transmission, suspension and controls into an enjoyable whole.
 

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With turbo's you are driving along with a little engine until you need monster power. VW's get good mileage with their turbo's. The hard part is staying off the gas.
 

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Robsa said:
With turbo's you are driving along with a little engine until you need monster power. VW's get good mileage with their turbo's. The hard part is staying off the gas.
I second that.......The Audi/VW 2.0T as in the A4 is driving off the same number of liters and engine size in my Mazda3.........:)
 

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The way BMW turbocharged 335 you'll never know the turbo is there and they have great experience with turbocharging having won F1 championship with their M12/13 engine. They also make one of the best turbodiesels in the world.

M12/13 engine used stock 4 cylinder iron block and in qualifying trim with 5.5 bar boost produced over 1,300 hp from 1.5 liters of displacement. It was probably close to 1,500 but BMWs dyno didn't go beyond 1,280. The F1 title won in 1983 was the first ever won by turbocharged engine.
Look at the size of the turbo:

 

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F1Crazy said:
M12/13 engine used stock 4 cylinder iron block and in qualifying trim with 5.5 bar boost produced over 1,300 hp from 1.5 liters of displacement.
I'll take it. Toss that engine into a Kia Rio and we might have something.
 
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