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Le plaisir de conduire
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Well I'll be the first here to respond. The G35 has more power than the 330, so acceleration-wise, it may slightly pull on the 330 up to 80 or so. But I think the 330 would pull from the G35 past 80 because it's geared more as an autobahn cruiser- for higher speed power. I think the brakes would be better on the 330 because BMW always builds their brakes larger than they need to be. On the other hand I think you can do that Brembo brake package for the G35 from the factory and those would out perform the 330's stock brakes. And as far as handling, I have no doubt the 330 would kill the G35 on the track because BMW's are that best handling cars in the world. Nearly 50/50 weight distribution. Enough said. And obviously I'm biased. :D

Hope this helps at all.

~Jon
 

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JAWJr said:
Well I'll be the first here to respond. The G35 has more power than the 330, so acceleration-wise, it may slightly pull on the 330 up to 80 or so. But I think the 330 would pull from the G35 past 80 because it's geared more as an autobahn cruiser- for higher speed power. I think the brakes would be better on the 330 because BMW always builds their brakes larger than they need to be. On the other hand I think you can do that Brembo brake package for the G35 from the factory and those would out perform the 330's stock brakes. And as far as handling, I have no doubt the 330 would kill the G35 on the track because BMW's are that best handling cars in the world. Nearly 50/50 weight distribution. Enough said. And obviously I'm biased. :D

Hope this helps at all.

~Jon
Not sure about the others, but I think you're wrong on the acceleration part. The G35 will still pull after 80, not by a big margin though.
 

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Ubergeek
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Braking: The 330's stock brakes are superior to the G35's brembo package.

Power: C&D rated the performance package 330 to be identical to the G35 coupe in 0-60 and 1/4 mile. If you're doing a freeway pull, the G35 will win. It weighs more, but this is where its higher horsepower will show.
Steering: I don't know.
 

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Rest in peace, Coach
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1. Unless you have the ZHP, the G35 coupe will pull slightly up to 80mph, and then pull away cleanly from 80mph on. The G35 is geared so aggressively, that it's final drive ratio is actually closer to the E46 M3 at 3.51 (M3 is 3.64) and combined with ~280hp and ~275 ft-lbs (same as E46 M3), that up to about 130mph the G35 will have the edge. 1/4 mile slips prove that.

2. Handling edge goes to the BMW, not because it's got a better suspension (it doesn't, the multi-link/strut hybrid suspension up front on the G35 is excellent, the 4 link suspension in the rear is just as advanced and very similar to that of the BMW), but the BMW has a much better steering box. The weight distribution isn't a big issue, because the G35 is NEAR 50/50 with a slight front bias, which is ideal for neutral throttle through a corner. But the steering box is the weak point here, the BMW steering is so precise and turn-in so sharp and consistent that it's hard to replicate. Probably the best steering box in a mass produced car outside of Porsche.

3. Braking is BMW, hands down. Brembo package or not. Reason? Those massive rotors on the BMW act as a huge heat sink, and BMW actually has functional air-ducts routing air to the front brakes to prevent fading. If you compare strictly braking distance, the two cars are very similar, but if you compare REPEATED braking performance, the BMW will resist fade much longer than the G35, because it can build and dissipate heat more efficiently. By the end of the day on the track, there'll be so much heat in those rotors and pads, it'll disintegrate the pads from the extreme heat (and brake pads only work in a certain temperature range).
 

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Rest in peace, Coach
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startover said:
Wow, impressive. I thought brembo's were very expensive brakes. :thumbup: :thumbup: to bmws!
Brembos are nothing if you can't dissipate and manage the pad temperatures properly.

Again, the BMW doesn't win on sheer braking power, but its ability to resist fade from pads heating past its operating temperature range.
 

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I'm almost positive that BMWs suffer from brake fade doing any type of aggressive driving. Although the G35 has Brembos, I'm not sure how they really do measure up. I have no doubt, however, that the 330 stops the same or better because of reduced weight and relatively large rotors and excellent pads. Tires should also play an important part....

For steering, the 330 has an excellent feel, weight, and precision to it that the G35 doesn't seem to match. In comparison, the TL has a steering feel very similar to the G35, but neither really feel like the 330.

The G35 should be faster past 80mph or from any sort of rolling start. I don't think the G35 has ~280 whp. The M3 has ~280whp, but certainly the G35 has less.
 

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330i is not a very fast track car, it got beat here by a GS300 (turbo), Legacy and Accord Type R, I've no doubt a G35 coupe would beat it, it's a fast track car. watch the video.

http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=474
 

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OEM Brembos are usually cheap pieces of garbage. Keep in mind that many/most BBKs are really not intended for uncompromised street use.
 

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I suspect that was the driver or his or her tires. I've been on TDs with BMWs that are extremely quick. I've also seen at least one very quick G35 coupe, of course, but if you're getting beat by a streetable Accord, you have problems.

Edit: When I was at Pocono for a bike track day, I ambled over to the fence for a look at the PCA folks (and their semi trailers...), and saw a Turbo being spanked mercilessly by a stripped out, beat-to-**** 356 that I later found out was mostly held together by baling wire and old oil. So I'm not sure how much you can learn by watching one example with drivers of different ability.

Dawg90 said:
330i is not a very fast track car, it got beat here by a GS300 (turbo), Legacy and Accord Type R, I've no doubt a G35 coupe would beat it, it's a fast track car. watch the video.

http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=474
 

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Have you had the chance to drive a G35 sedan hard? My impression was that the c of g was very high up and that agressive cornering would lead to Herbie-style two-wheel antics. Perhaps that isn't born out when you actually get a chance to push it, though.

And I thought brake fade was an infamous 3-series weakness? M3 comparisons usually complain about that. Of course, take almost any road car to the track and this will be an issue.

The HACK said:
2. Handling edge goes to the BMW, not because it's got a better suspension (it doesn't, the multi-link/strut hybrid suspension up front on the G35 is excellent, the 4 link suspension in the rear is just as advanced and very similar to that of the BMW), but the BMW has a much better steering box. The weight distribution isn't a big issue, because the G35 is NEAR 50/50 with a slight front bias, which is ideal for neutral throttle through a corner. But the steering box is the weak point here, the BMW steering is so precise and turn-in so sharp and consistent that it's hard to replicate. Probably the best steering box in a mass produced car outside of Porsche.

3. Braking is BMW, hands down. Brembo package or not. Reason? Those massive rotors on the BMW act as a huge heat sink, and BMW actually has functional air-ducts routing air to the front brakes to prevent fading. If you compare strictly braking distance, the two cars are very similar, but if you compare REPEATED braking performance, the BMW will resist fade much longer than the G35, because it can build and dissipate heat more efficiently. By the end of the day on the track, there'll be so much heat in those rotors and pads, it'll disintegrate the pads from the extreme heat (and brake pads only work in a certain temperature range).
 

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Rest in peace, Coach
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allaboutme said:
I'm almost positive that BMWs suffer from brake fade doing any type of aggressive driving. Although the G35 has Brembos, I'm not sure how they really do measure up. I have no doubt, however, that the 330 stops the same or better because of reduced weight and relatively large rotors and excellent pads. Tires should also play an important part....
Trust me, one of my track buddies that takes his 350z Track to the track regularly (try saying that three times as fast) has the same Brembo brake package as the G35s, and they do not hold up well.

I'm not saying BMW brakes don't fade. They do. I'm not saying BMW brakes are superior to Brembo brakes. They're not. But the way Nissan/Infiniti designed their brake system and it's cooling is very inefficient. Nathan, the guy with the 350z Track, constantly has problems with boiling his fluid despite running higher temp brake fluid.

A stark contrast is the Porsche brake design. The air ducts and cooling is so freakin' efficient that, despite Stuka having a fat pig of a car with a sh*t load of HP, he can stop consistently, harder, lap after lap in his Big Burd longer and with less brake wear than my old 323Ci.

But for a single caliper, sliding design, BMW's system is superior to 90% of OEM systems out there. There are only a handful of cars on the market that has a better brake system, and most of them cost as much as a BMW or are purposefully built for high performance driving.
 

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Rest in peace, Coach
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ChrisTO said:
if BMW has amazing brakes, can someone explain to me why G35s have a shorter braking distance than a 330i from car reviews.

http://www.modernracer.com/infinitig35.html
http://www.modernracer.com/features/factorytunedcars2.html

60-0mph
G35 - 115ft
330i (with performance pkg)- 120ft

the numbers don't lie.
If you believe that bull sh*t, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you for cheap. :rolleyes:

Numbers DO lie. If you have EVER driven a car hard, you will know that stopping distance is not a function of how powerful your brake is, but the weight of your car and the stickiness of your tires. If a brake system is powerful enough to activate ABS, all it takes is stickier tires or a lighter car to stop quicker.

If you take a look at the G35 overall rim size vs. 330i overall rim size, the difference is appearant. The G35 rim plus tire overall diameter is 25.5", while the 330i overall rim plus tire size is 25". That half an inch difference creates a larger contact patch that allow the G35 to have more grip upon braking. It's as simple as that.

The important number that you should be looking at, and the magazines NEVER talk about, is fade resistance. How many 60-0 brake applications does it take for that 115ft distance to start increasing. I can bet you the BMW brakes will stop consistantly for longer than the G35 brakes.
 

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Rest in peace, Coach
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norihaga said:
And I thought brake fade was an infamous 3-series weakness? M3 comparisons usually complain about that. Of course, take almost any road car to the track and this will be an issue.
For a car of this performance level, yes fade is a big problem with BMWs. Then again, when they compare BMW brakes they're usually comparing it to say, Porsche 911s, which has one of the best brake designs I've ever seen. I think in M cars, BMW should really consider ditching the sliding caliper design and go with a fixed 2 pot or 4 pot design to better alleviate heat build-up, and do what Porsche do with the curved vane cooling duct behind the wheel well to direct air from front of the car directly to the front calipers and rotors. The brakes (or it's lack of better cooling) is the weak point of the M3s, for that much performance people SHOULD expect better brakes.

But like I said, BMW makes better brakes than 90% of the other manufactures, and BMW brakes out perform most other brakes outside of the fancier setup used in cars like 911s and Corvettes, whom the M3s compete directly against.
 

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Right, and how many M3s spend much time on the track...not too many around here.

The HACK said:
For a car of this performance level, yes fade is a big problem with BMWs. Then again, when they compare BMW brakes they're usually comparing it to say, Porsche 911s, which has one of the best brake designs I've ever seen. I think in M cars, BMW should really consider ditching the sliding caliper design and go with a fixed 2 pot or 4 pot design to better alleviate heat build-up, and do what Porsche do with the curved vane cooling duct behind the wheel well to direct air from front of the car directly to the front calipers and rotors. The brakes (or it's lack of better cooling) is the weak point of the M3s, for that much performance people SHOULD expect better brakes.

But like I said, BMW makes better brakes than 90% of the other manufactures, and BMW brakes out perform most other brakes outside of the fancier setup used in cars like 911s and Corvettes, whom the M3s compete directly against.
 

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norihaga said:
I suspect that was the driver or his or her tires. I've been on TDs with BMWs that are extremely quick. I've also seen at least one very quick G35 coupe, of course, but if you're getting beat by a streetable Accord, you have problems.

Edit: When I was at Pocono for a bike track day, I ambled over to the fence for a look at the PCA folks (and their semi trailers...), and saw a Turbo being spanked mercilessly by a stripped out, beat-to-**** 356 that I later found out was mostly held together by baling wire and old oil. So I'm not sure how much you can learn by watching one example with drivers of different ability.
That's why Best Motoring races are much better indicators of car abilities than driver's schools - because each driver is a pro Le Mans or Japan Touring car driver - eliminating the skill issue.

Some BMW guys complain that the Japanese drivers don't push the German cars enough, that's just ridiculous - people will believe anything rather than accept that their favorite car is slower than a competitor.
 

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Here's some track numbers for you:

From EVO Magazine, Sept 2004
Track is West Circuit, Bedford Autodrome, 2.3 mile road course:

350Z . . . . . . 1:32.1
RX-8 . . . . . . 1:32.7
330Ci . . . . . 1:34.4
Crossfire . . . 1:34.6
Audi TT . . . . 1:34.9
Alfa GT . . . . 1:35.2
Monaro . . . . 1:34.7

The 330Ci has 18" rims, but I don't think it's a ZHP, it's 231 bhp.
The 350Z is probably a track model with 18" rims. Brakes are same size as the 330Ci, within a few mm.
The Monaro is 329 bhp, not the current US 400 hp model.

The 100-0 mph braking distance was 305 ft (best of the 7) for 330Ci, and 337 ft (worst of the 7) for 350Z.
 

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Stuck in Monday
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My impressions based on my personal experience, not the numbers:

Acceleration: This goes to the G35. I have a Performance Package equipped 330Ci, and the G35 will still pull on my car on the highway. At a stoplight, same result, although it was very close.

Brakes: This one is a tie in my book. Test driving the G35, the brakes stopped hard, but they felt extremely touchy and jerky. The 330Ci feels like it stops just as short, but does it in a much smoother, more consistent fashion. I got annoyed with the brakes on the G35 very quickly. I can't really comment on whether or not brake fade was more of an issue for one car over the other.

Handling: This one goes to the 330Ci. The G35 has an incredible suspension. It will cut corners hard, and it will stay flat while doing it. But there were two things about the G35 that took the fun out of the handling: (1) the car felt like a fat pig--it felt so much bigger and less tossable than the 330Ci; (2) the steering feel of the G35 did not inspire confidence. Much of this may be a driver issue, but I felt like I could push the 330Ci much harder in corners. And like someone else mentioned, the G35 felt like it had a much higher center of gravity.
 
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