[JST]

Which second car should I get? Should I go for the:

GTI (Nice fun and cheap)

A4 1.8T (Nice, almost as fun, but not as cheap)

325i SP (Very nice but somewhat dull next to an M3)

Used M3/4 (Then have two of the same car but increase my chances of actually using the second one as a commuter car rather than just driving the M3 all the time. Also, finding a good used one is tough)

Wait for the RX-8 (Can get a wicked discount, car looks fun, but it means one more year with the 92 Sentra)

Wait for 6 speed G35 (Ugly, unappealing interior, but looks like good performance and relatively cheap)

Thoughts?

 

[nate]

Which second car should I get? Should I go for the:

GTI (Nice fun and cheap)

A4 1.8T (Nice, almost as fun, but not as cheap)

325i SP (Very nice but somewhat dull next to an M3)

Used M3/4 (Then have two of the same car but increase my chances of actually using the second one as a commuter car rather than just driving the M3 all the time. Also, finding a good used one is tough)

Wait for the RX-8 (Can get a wicked discount, car looks fun, but it means one more year with the 92 Sentra)

Wait for 6 speed G35 (Ugly, unappealing interior, but looks like good performance and relatively cheap)

Thoughts?

GTI- FWD, Crappy tires, weak handling, fairly quick though

A4 1.8T- FAT, boring-A6 derived styling, slow, capable handling, lots of mod potential with the Turbo, weak gearchange, good commuter car...

325i SP- Good looks, good all around performance, comfortable, RWD, fun to drive and practical, but you already got rid of a 323 :dunno:

M3/4- Very nice car, You already have an M3, why have 2 :dunno: You don't want to commute in your M3C, why would this be different?

RX8- Very nice, lots of potential, long wait, rotary re-builds possible?

G35- looks promising, "questionable styling", wait

I'll let you make the decision

 

[ALEX325i]

GTI - has gone soft. No fun without suspension mods.

A4 1.8T - WTG IMO. Lots of potential mods. A $500 chip will pump 220+ HP out of its small 1.8T motor.

325i SP - Better than A4 1.8T IMO. More expensive too. Given the chance, I'd rather vary.

M3/4 - Well, you all know what I think about the E36...

Mazda? Infinity? Nah... Acura CL Type S (6-speed) maybe. 260 cheap horses... (haven't driven one yet though)

Edit:

Wait, this is the kind of thread you're supposed to be a smart a$$...

Go drive them and see which one you like better...

 

[nate]

Mazda? Infinity? Nah... Acura CL Type S (6-speed) maybe. 260 cheap horses... (haven't driven one yet though)

I hear that with the 6 speed there is a lot of torque steer that wasn't present in the auto (like manual Saabs). The CL good commuting car that can be somewhat fun to drive and is pretty competent at anything, like the TL. Good value too.

 

[KWiK]

Get the 325i, it's the closest to what you are used to.

 

[BS' Bimmer]

Not that I think you could go wrong with any of them, here's my thoughts:

GTI: FWD :thumbdwn:

A4: Nice, but there's a lot of crap going on over at audiworld.com about the availability of a working chip for the 02 (I think it's all BS and they do work, but why take the chance) plus I don't care for the new body style.

325: My choice -- performance, looks, fun to drive -- you can't go wrong!

M3: Why drive another? The biggest concern would be finding one that's in good enough condition for a good price.

RX-8: Just not a fan of it.

G35: might not be too bad, but why drive the 3er clone when you can have the real thing?

Why no Acura though? The Cl or maybe even the RSX depending on what size you need?

 

[SONET]

It seems you have quite a range of cars there spread across several price ranges.

I see people here suggesting the CL Type-S. As I have posted before, I wasn't impressed any of the three times I test drove the Type-S. FWD, cheap materials, FWD (torque steer sucks in auto and 6-speed), wimpy tires, FWD... and did I mention FWD? Really, why would you get a car that's trying to be a BMW when 'the real thing' seems to be in your price range?

Regarding the used BMWs... if you're looking for a commuter, wouldn't you be better off with a brand new car with a warranty? Reliability is key when you're using a car for this purpose.

As for the others, all I can say is variety is the spice of life. I've always been a big Wankel Rotary fan since I started studying engine design way back when... but I somehow doubt the RX-8 will be reliable enough to be a commuter. My cousin has a previous-gen A4 and she won't be buying another Audi. After seeing what she has been through I won't buy one either (they need to learn that a little responsibility goes a long way). I don't know too much about the GTI...

Personally I have been thinking about picking up a new Toyota truck in 6 months or so to use more or less as a commuter, but then again I've been finding myself where I need to haul stuff often... and I sure don't want to do that in my new 330ci when it arrives!

Just some random thoughts for ya. I guess the best thing you can do is go out and test drive them all and decide which one is worth a chunk of your stock portfolio/investments. Somehow things just look a bit different when you look at them that way, don't they?

--SONET

 

[geomax]

Since you're used to the BMW's smoothness, the 1.8T engines will probably come as a big disappointment. Having owned an Audi 1.8T in the past, I was never thrilled with it's performance, especially in hotter weather. The turbo lag just plain sucks. The VW 1.8T has the same engine - you could chip either car, thats true. But there are downsides to doing this such as voiding the warranty, and reliability of the turbo becomes a big question. And you're still stuck with the turbo lag.

But if you like 4-bangers and turbo's, etc - Have you considered the Benz C Coupe?

Supercharged 4 cyclinder, rated at 190hp. Seems like a fun car, and starts around 25,000. Can get pricey with options, but you can pick and choose. MB has a car config website, and there are extensive options for this car.

Otherwise, I think the GTI VR6 is a really fun car. The VR6 engine is potent, but the suspension needs work. On the flip side, for commuting, the suspension would be a lot more comfortable. The GTI VR6 also comes loaded with all the toys. I though I heard that it will soon be offered at 200hp. But I'm not sure. I'd still take the 174hp 6 over the 1.8T anyday - smoother and more torque. (Rumor has it that in 2004, VW will offer the GTI with AWD and the W8 engine. Now that will be interesting!)

I would also consider the Acura CL, type S with the 6 tranny. Again, a lot of bang for the buck, more comfort than sport, and RELIABILITY if you're going to do a lot of commuting miles.

 

[JST]

Thanks for all the input. I didn't include the Acura because to get a stick you have to get a two-door, and in a car that size I'd prefer to have 4. Plus, it's FWD, and the G35 and RX-8 (probably) will both offer similar performance for a similar value.

The VR6 is a good thought, but in truth I've driven the GTI 1.8T and don't mind the four. It's lighter than the VR6, and the turbo lag is surprisingly mild. The VR6 is quite a bit more expensive, and just doesn't seem worth it. On the other hand, the tires/chassis of the GTI do suck; a far cry from my old A2 GTI.

Reliability is another concern, but there's little chance I'll have this car more than three years (and I'll probably lease), so as long as it's not in the shop every day, I don't so much care if the engine grenades at 100K miles.

Finally, with respect to the C Coupe, I drove one at the Power Trip and was really not impressed. On paper, it looks great, but in person it feels cheap (and rattly) and has the Mercedes trademark numbness. The GTI is a superior choice, IMHO, even with FWD.

The other option that I didn't include is the V8 S4, which is substantially more expensive than any of the above but that may be worth it.

I'm thinking what I'll do is nothing now, and wait for the RX-8 to hit the streets. That design has a lot of potential, and it's hard to argue with the price point. In the meantime, I'll keep my eyes open for good M3/4s, and if I find one of those, maybe I'll pick it up.

Since you're used to the BMW's smoothness, the 1.8T engines will probably come as a big disappointment. Having owned an Audi 1.8T in the past, I was never thrilled with it's performance, especially in hotter weather. The turbo lag just plain sucks. The VW 1.8T has the same engine - you could chip either car, thats true. But there are downsides to doing this such as voiding the warranty, and reliability of the turbo becomes a big question. And you're still stuck with the turbo lag.

But if you like 4-bangers and turbo's, etc - Have you considered the Benz C Coupe?

Supercharged 4 cyclinder, rated at 190hp. Seems like a fun car, and starts around 25,000. Can get pricey with options, but you can pick and choose. MB has a car config website, and there are extensive options for this car.

Otherwise, I think the GTI VR6 is a really fun car. The VR6 engine is potent, but the suspension needs work. On the flip side, for commuting, the suspension would be a lot more comfortable. The GTI VR6 also comes loaded with all the toys. I though I heard that it will soon be offered at 200hp. But I'm not sure. I'd still take the 174hp 6 over the 1.8T anyday - smoother and more torque. (Rumor has it that in 2004, VW will offer the GTI with AWD and the W8 engine. Now that will be interesting!)

I would also consider the Acura CL, type S with the 6 tranny. Again, a lot of bang for the buck, more comfort than sport, and RELIABILITY if you're going to do a lot of commuting miles.

 

[Guest]

GTI & A4 1.8T - Same engine, damn near different everything else. But as you pointed out yourself, the GTI will be cheaper and more fun. Of the two (as a SECOND car), it seems like the better choice, FWD be damned.

325i SP - Why bother? It's expensive for what it is and will never compare favorably to the M3C, so it'll never get driven and end up as an ultra-low-mileage trade-in.

Used M3/4 - As you implied, if you got this, you'd actually spread out your commuting miles between two cars rather than just ignoring the second car and driving the M3C exclusively. And when it came time to spawn offspring, you'd already have your family car. And I can attest to the merits of having a family plus one E36 M3 sedan and one E36 (in my case non-M3) convertible. Works fine.

Wait for the RX-8 - This car holds appeal to me too and I don't have access to a discount. Maybe wait until you know more and can pull off an actual test drive. The rear seat does appear to small to be useful, however.

Wait for 6 speed G35 - While it sounds great on paper, it looks uninspired. I just couldn't see myself getting excited enough to blow $35K on it. Plus, you can pretty much rest assured it will fall far short of even an 2001+ E46 sedan in terms of actually driving feel. You might as well get the M3/4.

So, MY highly biased vote goes to the M3/4.

 

[ALEX325i]

My cousin has a previous-gen A4 and she won't be buying another Audi. After seeing what she has been through I won't buy one either (they need to learn that a little responsibility goes a long way).

I had a 98 A4 1.8T Quattro w/Tip which I drove for 40 months and NO problems. Flawless performance...

 

[Guest]

I had a 98 A4 1.8T Quattro w/Tip which I drove for 40 months and NO problems. Flawless performance...

And I leased a '97 A4 1.8T Quattro 5-spd for 40 months which I ragged EVERY DAY of it's time with me and I also had ZERO problems. My 330i (in the 15 months I had it) had more problems than the A4 did in the entire time I had it.

 

[ALEX325i]

325i SP - Why bother? It's expensive for what it is and will never compare favorably to the M3C, so it'll never get driven and end up as an ultra-low-mileage trade-in.

C'mon... It's not THAT expensive and it IS better than an A4 1.8T. Anyway, as a second car, I agree... A4 would be my choice too (but just because I like variety and have an M3).

Wait for 6 speed G35 - While it sounds great on paper, it looks uninspired. I just couldn't see myself getting excited enough to blow $35K on it. Plus, you can pretty much rest assured it will fall far short of even an 2001+ E46 sedan in terms of actually driving feel. You might as well get the M3/4.

Damn, we finally agree on something.

So, MY highly biased vote goes to the M3/4.

Hmmm... Why am I not suprised :lmao:

 

[JST]

325i SP - Why bother? It's expensive for what it is and will never compare favorably to the M3C, so it'll never get driven and end up as an ultra-low-mileage trade-in.

I don't have quite the anti-E46 fervor that you do, and if it were just me I'd always pick the 325 over the A4. However, my wife really likes/wants an A4, for reasons that have nothing to do with driving dynamics, and she doesn't really like the 325 as much.

For a commuter/trip car, I think the 325 is a nice balance. However, your point about the 325 never getting driven is very valid. When I had both the 323Ci and the M3 for a couple of months, I had to force myself to drive the 323 occasionally, and I was constantly looking for excuses to drive the M3 instead. I suspect it would be the same with a 325 (and, FWIW, I don't understand why ALEX325i would ever drive his 325 over his M3).

I'd feel a lot better about an M3/4 if I could buy one less than 4 years old. I've already committed to owning one high-strung 4 year old German sports car, and I'm not sure it's such a good idea to have two. Plus, variety is the spice of life.

I saw a really nice M coupe at the dealer last night, but the last thing I need is to add something smaller, faster and louder to the fleet and have the M3 be the "family" car.

 

[Guest]

I don't have quite the anti-E46 fervor that you do, and if it were just me I'd always pick the 325 over the A4. However, my wife really likes/wants an A4, for reasons that have nothing to do with driving dynamics, and she doesn't really like the 325 as much.

For a commuter/trip car, I think the 325 is a nice balance. However, your point about the 325 never getting driven is very valid. When I had both the 323Ci and the M3 for a couple of months, I had to force myself to drive the 323 occasionally, and I was constantly looking for excuses to drive the M3 instead. I suspect it would be the same with a 325 (and, FWIW, I don't understand why ALEX325i would ever drive his 325 over his M3).

I'd feel a lot better about an M3/4 if I could buy one less than 4 years old. I've already committed to owning one high-strung 4 year old German sports car, and I'm not sure it's such a good idea to have two. Plus, variety is the spice of life.

I saw a really nice M coupe at the dealer last night, but the last thing I need is to add something smaller, faster and louder to the fleet and have the M3 be the "family" car.

Our cars both get driven as one is the slower CONVERTIBLE and the other is the FAST sedan. Since you have a FAST CONVERTIBLE, it almost assures the "other" car will be second-fiddle regardless of what it is.

I can also see an argument for an AWD A4, especially if your wife will be driving it most of the time. The Quattro is definitely confidence inspiring and it's one of the reasons I would think to replace my wife's 323iC with an S4 (or even A4) Avant rather than with a BMW wagon. (The fact that the AWD BMWs do not come with a sport suspension AND that the Quattro system is far superior to BMW's AWD system are also very important.)

I guess I should pick on you for posting something asking for opinions without detailing your needs. If I were you, considering that the M3C isn't allowed in CCA driver's schools, I'd want to get something I could track which would favor the M3/4 or RX8.

But to find a commuter that you might actually select over the M3C on occasion, you're really down to the GTI, RX8 or M3/4. None of the others would ever leave the driveway given the choice.

 

[hts]

Why are 'we' all so sure the G35 lacks the road feel of the E46?

Personally, while I like the way my 330i (with retrofitted steering) feels, and I don't ever plan to track it, I don't think it's fair to suggest (not that anyone here has) that an E46 feels anything like an E36 (M or otherwise).

I've actually driven a G35 (unfortunately it didn't have the sport package and of course it was a slushie) and I was damned impressed (unlike my initial impression of the IS300).

Surprisingly, I'm also enamored with the slightly larger (interior) size of the G (especially in the back seat), and, although I'm sure this will get me into 'trouble' with all the purists here, I also find it to be somewhat more luxurious than my E46 (which I consider to be a good thing).

So, combine 280 (rumored) horsepower with a 6-speed, excellent road feel, LSD, better warranty, free Infiniti loaner for any service, 6-CD in-dash, etc., etc. for low 30's (I suspect the manuals will go begging after only being available for a few months), and I think it's an awesome value.

Kudos to Infiniti/Nissan. I can't wait to get my hands on a 6-speed...

 

[JST]

Our cars both get driven as one is the slower CONVERTIBLE and the other is the FAST sedan. Since you have a FAST CONVERTIBLE, it almost assures the "other" car will be second-fiddle regardless of what it is.

I can also see an argument for an AWD A4, especially if your wife will be driving it most of the time. The Quattro is definitely confidence inspiring and it's one of the reasons I would think to replace my wife's 323iC with an S4 (or even A4) Avant rather than with a BMW wagon. (The fact that the AWD BMWs do not come with a sport suspension AND that the Quattro system is far superior to BMW's AWD system are also very important.)

I guess I should pick on you for posting something asking for opinions without detailing your needs. If I were you, considering that the M3C isn't allowed in CCA driver's schools, I'd want to get something I could track which would favor the M3/4 or RX8.

But to find a commuter that you might actually select over the M3C on occasion, you're really down to the GTI, RX8 or M3/4. None of the others would ever leave the driveway given the choice.

Yes, I should have been more specific. My needs for a second car are pretty much as you've described them. I want, in roughly this order:

1. A car that I can use to commute in and keep some miles off of the M3.

1.5 A car that is fun to drive and reasonably fast.

1.6 A car that doesn't cost a lot to maintain.

2. A car that I can use on trips, to keep some miles off the M3 (which is a bad trip car anyway).

3. A car that I can use for track days/driving schools; it doesn't have to be blazingly fast, but the understeering GTI probably wouldn't be too much fun.

4. A car that I can haul big stuff in, such as Ikea flat packs or my bike.

5. A car that is safer than a ten year old Nissan.

Obviously, number 3 and number 4 produce conflicting recommendations: A GTI would be good for 4, but not 3, and an RX-8 would be the other way around. An M3/4 would, of course, perfectly meet all of these criteria (as long as I could find one with folding seats), except (probably) 1.6.

 

[ALEX325i]

(and, FWIW, I don't understand why ALEX325i would ever drive his 325 over his M3).

For a number of reasons:

1. I like my 325i VERY much.
2. The 325i is my commuter - the one I leave parked at the airport, office garage, etc. I'd rather have dings and scratches on the 325i (not that I have any) than on the M3.
3. Gas frugal compared to the M3.

The list goes on and on.

 

[Guest]

Yes, I should have been more specific. My needs for a second car are pretty much as you've described them. I want, in roughly this order:

1. A car that I can use to commute in and keep some miles off of the M3.

1.5 A car that is fun to drive and reasonably fast.

1.6 A car that doesn't cost a lot to maintain.

2. A car that I can use on trips, to keep some miles off the M3 (which is a bad trip car anyway).

3. A car that I can use for track days/driving schools; it doesn't have to be blazingly fast, but the understeering GTI probably wouldn't be too much fun.

4. A car that I can haul big stuff in, such as Ikea flat packs or my bike.

5. A car that is safer than a ten year old Nissan.

Obviously, number 3 and number 4 produce conflicting recommendations: A GTI would be good for 4, but not 3, and an RX-8 would be the other way around. An M3/4 would, of course, perfectly meet all of these criteria (as long as I could find one with folding seats), except (probably) 1.6.

I have often theorized that when you force someone to fully define their question, it often points directly at the answer.

M3/4s with fold-downs DO exist, but they are rare. Why not just BORROW someone's SUV or minivan for that rare Ikea run? That's what we do. And that way you don't sacrifice structural rigidity on your track car.

 

[ARCHER]

Have any of you driven...

the last generation RX-7? I have not but have always heard/read good things about them.

I'm just curious about steering and braking characteristics. I have no doubt the new RX-8 will handle well but will she feel good doing it...