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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking to lease in South Florida a 2017 X1 S28i 36 month 10k miles $0 down and am looking for some help. I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly.

This is an email I received from a dealer of a vehicle he had available even though I said I wanted to build my own...

Adjusted Cap Cost / $38,610.92
Buyrate / .00180 Could be ( .00150 ) if Credit Score is 700 or Geater.
Residual ( 61% )
Doc Fee $899.00
Acq Fee $925.00
Lemon Law $2.00
Battery Fee $1.50
Electronic Filling Fee $176.31
Tag Fee $10.00
Lease Surcharge $60.00
License Fee $200.00

At first they were very evasive when I asked for Money Factor.. Residual etc. but they finally sent me an email with these above numbers. They said they could not change any of these fees.. They stated my lease would be $498 a month not including tax. If my math is correct with the numbers above I get $567.28

38,610.92 - 23,552.66 (61%) / 36 = 418.28
38,610.92 + 23,552.66 x .0018 = 111.89
Total is $530.17 plus 7% sales tax = $567.28

This seems absurdly high too me and I have no clue where they are pulling $498 from with the numbers they provided. I am looking for an honest dealer who doesn't play games. I stated I wanted the base model with Navigation, Drivers Assistance Pkg, and Sirius radio.

Would appreciate all help, mathematics and feedback!

Bababooey!
 

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What the heck is a lease surcharge?!


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What's MSRP?


Sent from my iPad using Bimmerfest
 

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I am looking to lease in South Florida a 2017 X1 S28i 36 month 10k miles $0 down and am looking for some help. I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly.

This is an email I received from a dealer of a vehicle he had available even though I said I wanted to build my own...

Adjusted Cap Cost / $38,610.92
Buyrate / .00180 Could be ( .00150 ) if Credit Score is 700 or Geater.
Residual ( 61% )
Doc Fee $899.00
Acq Fee $925.00
Lemon Law $2.00
Battery Fee $1.50
Electronic Filling Fee $176.31
Tag Fee $10.00
Lease Surcharge $60.00
License Fee $200.00

At first they were very evasive when I asked for Money Factor.. Residual etc. but they finally sent me an email with these above numbers. They said they could not change any of these fees.. They stated my lease would be $498 a month not including tax. If my math is correct with the numbers above I get $567.28

38,610.92 - 23,552.66 (61%) / 36 = 418.28
38,610.92 + 23,552.66 x .0018 = 111.89
Total is $530.17 plus 7% sales tax = $567.28

This seems absurdly high too me and I have no clue where they are pulling $498 from with the numbers they provided. I am looking for an honest dealer who doesn't play games. I stated I wanted the base model with Navigation, Drivers Assistance Pkg, and Sirius radio.

Would appreciate all help, mathematics and feedback!

Bababooey!
That looks like a typical south florida quote (as in the south florida dealers are pretty silly in pricing in relation to other places. First of all, that 899 doc fee is all profit. Tell the dealer you wont even consider the car unless some of those fees were reduced from the price of the car.

The 899 doc fee, the 60 lease surcharge, and the electronic filing fee is where i would start with that.

The buy rate is .00150, and its correct that you need to have 700 or higher to get that. They dont have to offer that even if you have 700 or greater though.

Residual percentage is not negotiable and is set By BMW financial services in relationship to miles and years of lease.

lease acquisition fee is 925 and not negotiable.. but remember that 899 doc fee is only 80 in california. You could order from Greg poland (california bimmerfest sponsor) and get the car shipped to you in florida, and l bet you it would still be cheaper than what they are offering you (and you get the car you want, not their car off the lot they are trying to ram down your throat).
 

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I am looking to lease in South Florida a 2017 X1 S28i 36 month 10k miles $0 down and am looking for some help. I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly.

This is an email I received from a dealer of a vehicle he had available even though I said I wanted to build my own...

Adjusted Cap Cost / $38,610.92
Buyrate / .00180 Could be ( .00150 ) if Credit Score is 700 or Geater.
Residual ( 61% )
Doc Fee $899.00
Acq Fee $925.00
Lemon Law $2.00
Battery Fee $1.50
Electronic Filling Fee $176.31
Tag Fee $10.00
Lease Surcharge $60.00
License Fee $200.00

At first they were very evasive when I asked for Money Factor.. Residual etc. but they finally sent me an email with these above numbers. They said they could not change any of these fees.. They stated my lease would be $498 a month not including tax. If my math is correct with the numbers above I get $567.28

38,610.92 - 23,552.66 (61%) / 36 = 418.28
38,610.92 + 23,552.66 x .0018 = 111.89
Total is $530.17 plus 7% sales tax = $567.28

This seems absurdly high too me and I have no clue where they are pulling $498 from with the numbers they provided. I am looking for an honest dealer who doesn't play games. I stated I wanted the base model with Navigation, Drivers Assistance Pkg, and Sirius radio.

Would appreciate all help, mathematics and feedback!

Bababooey!
At this point you are, basically, a monthly payment buyer. Calculate the minimum required drive offs, which would be government fees (as opposed to dealer pack add-on fees) and first month's payment and, if you wish, the BMWFS $925 lease fee. Then figure out a monthly payment that makes sense to you for this car, based on your understanding of the current market,current rates for which you qualify, and any available incentives. The most important thing is to keep your eye on the TOTAL TRANSACTION COST.

Then it's simply a matter of telling the sales manager, "Here's what I'm ready to say yes to today. How can we make this happen?"

Where the dealer moves the numbers doesn't matter too much if, in the end, you're paying what you feel comfortable paying for a car you really want. Don't let the dealer bump you out of that comfort zone.

If they tell you your offer is unreasonable, then, how close can they get?

I have been in situations where I could have tried to fight to get fees removed or rates lowered. Instead, I simply focused on the out-the-door numbers and total transaction cost that I could justify in my mind based on my understanding of what a reasonable price for the car should be. Mostly, I try to focus on the point at which, much as I may be in love with a car, I'm willing to say 'thanks for trying,' and walk away if the dealer can't work with reasonable numbers. There are a lot of cars out there -- something dealers know but want customers to forget.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What's MSRP?


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BASE MSRP $33,750
Driving Assistance Package $1,150
Navigation Business $1,200
Destination & Handling $995
TOTAL MSRP as Built $37,095

Unless Navigation is standard then I don't need the "Business Navigation"?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That looks like a typical south florida quote (as in the south florida dealers are pretty silly in pricing in relation to other places. First of all, that 899 doc fee is all profit. Tell the dealer you wont even consider the car unless some of those fees were reduced from the price of the car.

The 899 doc fee, the 60 lease surcharge, and the electronic filing fee is where i would start with that.

The buy rate is .00150, and its correct that you need to have 700 or higher to get that. They dont have to offer that even if you have 700 or greater though.

Residual percentage is not negotiable and is set By BMW financial services in relationship to miles and years of lease.

lease acquisition fee is 925 and not negotiable.. but remember that 899 doc fee is only 80 in california. You could order from Greg poland (california bimmerfest sponsor) and get the car shipped to you in florida, and l bet you it would still be cheaper than what they are offering you (and you get the car you want, not their car off the lot they are trying to ram down your throat).
Great, thank you. I'm assuming the only standard non negotiable fee is the $925 Acquisition? Everything else should be $0? I will reach out to Greg. I can sign all the paperwork electronically, I don't have to fly to California and he can ship to Florida? I have never leased out of state before and have no idea how that would work.
 

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I am looking to lease in South Florida a 2017 X1 S28i 36 month 10k miles $0 down and am looking for some help. I'm not sure if I am doing this correctly.

This is an email I received from a dealer of a vehicle he had available even though I said I wanted to build my own...

Adjusted Cap Cost / $38,610.92
Buyrate / .00180 Could be ( .00150 ) if Credit Score is 700 or Geater.
Residual ( 61% )
Doc Fee $899.00
Acq Fee $925.00
Lemon Law $2.00
Battery Fee $1.50
Electronic Filling Fee $176.31
Tag Fee $10.00
Lease Surcharge $60.00
License Fee $200.00

At first they were very evasive when I asked for Money Factor.. Residual etc. but they finally sent me an email with these above numbers. They said they could not change any of these fees.. They stated my lease would be $498 a month not including tax. If my math is correct with the numbers above I get $567.28

38,610.92 - 23,552.66 (61%) / 36 = 418.28
38,610.92 + 23,552.66 x .0018 = 111.89
Total is $530.17 plus 7% sales tax = $567.28

This seems absurdly high too me and I have no clue where they are pulling $498 from with the numbers they provided. I am looking for an honest dealer who doesn't play games. I stated I wanted the base model with Navigation, Drivers Assistance Pkg, and Sirius radio.

Would appreciate all help, mathematics and feedback!

Bababooey!
Are you calculating residual based on agreed selling price or MSRP?
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Are you calculating residual based on agreed selling price or MSRP?
On the 38,610.92 should I not be?

But clearly I am not going to work with this dealership. Just trying to make sure my math is correct with the given numbers I provided so when I do work with someone I know how to do it correctly..

This is what I just built online..

TOTAL MSRP as Built $37,095
 

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On the 38,610.92 should I not be?

But clearly I am not going to work with this dealership. Just trying to make sure my math is correct with the given numbers I provided so when I do work with someone I know how to do it correctly..

This is what I just built online..

TOTAL MSRP as Built $37,095
37,095 x .61 = 22,628 residual
 

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But the 37,095 can be negotiated.. so wouldn't the residual and money factor be based on the final negotiated number?

No, residual is always fixed to MSRP. (This way BMW doesn't have every single deal with different buyouts)

I would not buy in Florida. You can order via anyone in the country, fly up to the PCD and drive it home on a weekend. Between the Doc fee, filing fee, garabage fee, you have a significant price different there- and the FLA dealers WILL NOT lower their price enough to make it an equal deal. IMO
 

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But the 37,095 can be negotiated.. so wouldn't the residual and money factor be based on the final negotiated number?
Residual is based on MSRP. You may want to read the Leasing 101 thread to get fully schooled.

Or go to a site like leaseguide.com and play with their calculator. Takes a while to get the hang of leasing -- it's not the most transparent transaction so it helps to have a solid grasp of the moving parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Residual is based on MSRP. You may want to read the Leasing 101 thread to get fully schooled.

Or go to a site like leaseguide.com and play with their calculator. Takes a while to get the hang of leasing -- it's not the most transparent transaction so it helps to have a solid grasp of the moving parts.
So this formula is incorrect?

(Cap Cost ***8211; Residual Value) / Term = Depreciation
(Cap Cost + Residual Value) X Base Rate = Interest
Depreciation + Interest + Tax = Base Monthly Payment

And isn't the cap cost negotiable? i.e. the 37,095 MSRP can be negotiated down to 90% or more.. so it can become 33-34k plus incentives mark it down even more from there.. or am I completely wrong here?
 

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So this formula is incorrect?

(Cap Cost – Residual Value) / Term = Depreciation
(Cap Cost + Residual Value) X Base Rate = Interest
Depreciation + Interest + Tax = Base Monthly Payment

And isn't the cap cost negotiable? i.e. the 37,095 MSRP can be negotiated down to 90% or more.. so it can become 33-34k plus incentives mark it down even more from there.. or am I completely wrong here?
You are correct.

So, first is the MSRP multiplied by the residual %. That number becomes a constant for lease calculation.

The name of the game is to get the final adjusted cap cost as LOW as possible so that the depreciation gap between the cap cost and the residual is as small as possible, because that amount is divided by the lease length and is the largest component of your monthly lease payment.

The money factor can definitely impact the total payment cost, so you want that as low as possible, but it isn't as big a factor as cap cost.

And, tax takes care of itself, depending on the rules in your state.

If you add the $925 lease fee to the cap cost, you will pay interest on the fee over the life of the lease. Some have opted for a higher money factor with no lease fee, but that always is the most expensive.

Some feel loading as much as possible into cap cost and making sure the entire unpaid cap cost owed is covered by the free GAP policy offers the best hedge against a total loss not covered by your standard auto policy.

But a lease is a multi-step negotiation. first, you need agreement on the selling price of the car. Then you need to understand how the dealer is handling any rebates, lease credits, or other incentives -- how they are folded into your deal can impact taxes as well as monthly lease amount.

Build the deal that is most advantageous to you and see if the dealer will do it for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You are correct.

So, first is the MSRP multiplied by the residual %. That number becomes a constant for lease calculation.

The name of the game is to get the final adjusted cap cost as LOW as possible so that the depreciation gap between the cap cost and the residual is as small as possible, because that amount is divided by the lease length and is the largest component of your monthly lease payment.

The money factor can definitely impact the total payment cost, so you want that as low as possible, but it isn't as big a factor as cap cost.

And, tax takes care of itself, depending on the rules in your state.

If you add the $925 lease fee to the cap cost, you will pay interest on the fee over the life of the lease. Some have opted for a higher money factor with no lease fee, but that always is the most expensive.

Some feel loading as much as possible into cap cost and making sure the entire unpaid cap cost owed is covered by the free GAP policy offers the best hedge against a total loss not covered by your standard auto policy.

But a lease is a multi-step negotiation. first, you need agreement on the selling price of the car. Then you need to understand how the dealer is handling any rebates, lease credits, or other incentives -- how they are folded into your deal can impact taxes as well as monthly lease amount.

Build the deal that is most advantageous to you and see if the dealer will do it for you.
Thank you very much for your detailed response! So on my $37,095 build no matter the negotiated cap cost the Residual number will always be $22,627.95 (61%)? Can the Money Factor be negotiated as well? With over 700 credit I can get it to .0015 but can I negotiate it from there?
 

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Thank you very much for your detailed response! So on my $37,095 build no matter the negotiated cap cost the Residual number will always be $22,627.95 (61%)? Can the Money Factor be negotiated as well? With over 700 credit I can get it to .0015 but can I negotiate it from there?
So now is the time to work with a CA that will level with you and walk you through all the ins and outs available in your region.

Try Adrian. Might be worth a road trip to GA to get your car. Call or email him with your build and see what a Fester can do for you:
__________________
BMW of Gwinnett Place
3624 Commerce Ave
Duluth, GA 30096
6 Center of Excellence Awards
#1 Certified Pre-Owned Center in the U.S.
www.gwinnettbmw.com
New Car Special Offers Link
Pre-Owned Specials Link

770-329-9793
[email protected]

Top Performing Client Advisor, Performance Center & European Delivery Specialist
New & Pre-Owned Sales
 

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Discussion Starter #18
So now is the time to work with a CA that will level with you and walk you through all the ins and outs available in your region.

Try Adrian. Might be worth a road trip to GA to get your car. Call or email him with your build and see what a Fester can do for you:
__________________
BMW of Gwinnett Place
3624 Commerce Ave
Duluth, GA 30096
6 Center of Excellence Awards
#1 Certified Pre-Owned Center in the U.S.
www.gwinnettbmw.com
New Car Special Offers Link
Pre-Owned Specials Link

770-329-9793
[email protected]

Top Performing Client Advisor, Performance Center & European Delivery Specialist
New & Pre-Owned Sales
Do I have to fly to CA if I want to work with a dealer like Greg Poland or can I do everything over the phone and email and eDoc signature? I don't want to have to fly out to CA and schlep back in the car. Can they just ship the car to me?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So now is the time to work with a CA that will level with you and walk you through all the ins and outs available in your region.

Try Adrian. Might be worth a road trip to GA to get your car. Call or email him with your build and see what a Fester can do for you:
__________________
BMW of Gwinnett Place
3624 Commerce Ave
Duluth, GA 30096
6 Center of Excellence Awards
#1 Certified Pre-Owned Center in the U.S.
www.gwinnettbmw.com
New Car Special Offers Link
Pre-Owned Specials Link

770-329-9793
[email protected]

Top Performing Client Advisor, Performance Center & European Delivery Specialist
New & Pre-Owned Sales
Could you send me Adrian's email? Thank you.
 

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Do I have to fly to CA if I want to work with a dealer like Greg Poland or can I do everything over the phone and email and eDoc signature? I don't want to have to fly out to CA and schlep back in the car. Can they just ship the car to me?
Reach out to these guys -- they will tell you straight up what they can and can't do. I suggested Georgia because it's closer to you. The guys in California and Washington State are great too, but there isn't enough in your deal -- if it were a $100,000 car, maybe. That's why I suggested Adrian as a first hit.
 
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