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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thanks to lbjgh for opening my eyes to the alternatives.

I was just perusing the Hyundai website and noticed the 2013 2.0t seems to be very close to the x3 28 albeit a cheaper alternative.

Granted, I love my X3's but wonder if anyone has driven this yet as I am in the market again for an add to stable.


The obvious difference is the 6 speed tranny versus 8 speed, but big roof 19" msport sized wheels, leatherette, design cues, seem to be BMW similarities. Torque, HP, and MPG seem on par as well.


We probably all saw the video of VW's CEO in the Hyundai i30 in Frankfurt.

Is Hyundai making the real deal or is it a rip off?

What are your thoughts?
 

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That Hyundai/Kia 2.0T appears to be the real deal. The Kia Sportage has one and posts pretty impressive numbers, but it is slightly smaller than the X3, even the old one. Have not seen the new Santa Fe yet but I am prepared to be impressed. With the very impressive warranty and attractive styling both brands have become players in the upscale market. The Kia Optima Turbo is a very impressive car! The new Hyundai Genesis Coupe has a very powerful V6 now and competes head to head with some high class iron. If you can handle the fact you are driving a Hyundai or Kia instead of a BMW/Audi/MB they are a great buy IMHO. In any case it is worth a look at the local Hyundai store -- just park down the street and wear a hat with dark glasses on so your friends won't see you in there.:rofl:
 

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If I hadn't bought my X3 I would likely have the Sportage SX turbo parked in my driveway.

I drove everything... I mean everything in the CUV/SUV/SAV segment before I purchased the Bimmer. The X3 was by far the most fun to drive which is why I purchased it. The Kia would have saved me at least $15,000 had I bought it.

If you aren't a brand snob I'd suggest having a look at the new Santa Fe and even the 2.0L ecoboost powered ford escape (virtually the same mill in the Range Rover Evoque)
 

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$3k for maintenance. Really?

3000/$100=30 oil changes x 12K kms = 360,000kms

I digress.

The Hyundai has more horsepower and torque. More room and a better warranty. ... and arguably better value. ... and when maintenance is required, it'll cost less.

The engine is the basis for the Mitsu Evo too so it has the tech.

Sure the X3 will impress the neighbours, stop,steer,corner, and handle better but unless you are a brand snob is it worth the extra money?

Using the web site I priced up a fully loaded '12 Sante Fe with every single option available (tents, winter wheels, key chains the works) and it was still $3K less than a bear bones X3 28i.

Anyway I'm not slamming the X3... hell I bought one and then stuck $10,000 in options on it. Lets face it, owning a BMW isn't about value and only the OP can decide if trumping the Jones' is worth the extra cash. :angel:

Hyundai fully loaded would be close to $10,000 apart, with the free maintenance approx. $3,000 savings. So about $7,000 price difference, not that significant driving a BMW at these prices.
 

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No, most BMW enthusiasts are also car buffs and interested in all things automotive, or at least that has been my long held view. Hyundai is a serious player in the industrial world -- of which cars are just one (small, but exciting) part. They are producing some very interesting iron that is vastly removed from the early "throw-away" Excel days of long past. I am old enough to remember when BMW was selling re-badged Isetta bubble cars, Subaru was flogging two-cycle 360's, and Honda had a thing called the S500 -- not to be confused with the very excellent S2000. Of course BMW and Honda already built great bikes and Subaru (Fuji Heavy Industries) built great ships so there was expertise behind them all. Hyundai and Kia are breaking out now and will be serious players in the years ahead just like the others before them. So it is not a joke.:angel:
 

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That Hyundai/Kia 2.0T appears to be the real deal. The Kia Sportage has one and posts pretty impressive numbers, but it is slightly smaller than the X3, even the old one. Have not seen the new Santa Fe yet but I am prepared to be impressed. With the very impressive warranty and attractive styling both brands have become players in the upscale market. The Kia Optima Turbo is a very impressive car! The new Hyundai Genesis Coupe has a very powerful V6 now and competes head to head with some high class iron. If you can handle the fact you are driving a Hyundai or Kia instead of a BMW/Audi/MB they are a great buy IMHO. In any case it is worth a look at the local Hyundai store -- just park down the street and wear a hat with dark glasses on so your friends won't see you in there.:rofl:
Or have a bat cave parking that you can quickly get in and out of your house.:)
 

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I cannot resist adding to this thread

I think it is obvious that if you are on this forum you love cars. Not all BMW owners love cars but I would certainly agree that many are enthusiasts.

Enthusiasts would laugh at a two cylider Subaru 360. They were junk in 1968 and now they are old junk. A Honda S500, on the other hand, was a very cute little roadster. Likewise the Bubble Cars were also junk but kept BMW afloat when the post war German economy was in bad shape.

Hyundai makes good looking appliances...if anyone seriously thinks that a Santa Fe compares against an X3 in any driveability areas then go get one.

Value is a separate issue. Metal for the $ is a sparate issue. What a BMW or a Porsche or a Caddy CTS-V or any other enthusiast automobile provides to you is a different and more connected driving experience. That costs engineering dollars.

Do a comparison drive on the FDR in New York City or the Grand Central Parkway. That is where you see the true differences. Perhaps on Route 70 through Indiana where it is paved well and straight you can compare a Sante Fe to something better engineered but frankly I don't think so.

Ergo I think that this thread is silly. Go to a Hyundai thread or a Kia thread there and espouse their value all you want. Honestly these days the only company that comes close is Ford and they still have to make their vehicles less expensive so they miss out on some areas.
 

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...

Sure the X3 will impress the neighbours, stop,steer,corner, and handle better but unless you are a brand snob is it worth the extra money?
...
:angel:
The X3 will steer, corner and handle better: Ah, but that is exactly the fun of driving the X3. These were the top features for me for sure. All the luxury features are easy to put into a car - they challenge there is to make it cost-effective so the car maker makes money out of it. But to steer, corner and handle better you need great engineering - that is not easy to reproduce.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ergo I think that this thread is silly. Go to a Hyundai thread or a Kia thread there and espouse their value all you want. Honestly these days the only company that comes close is Ford and they still have to make their vehicles less expensive so they miss out on some areas.
I'm sorry you feel this thread is silly, but were compelled to reply to it. We already saw reviews where the ATS is in the shadow of the F30.

Having two 2013 x3 35s, I will be the first to say that I was a snob and preferred the performance and luxury of the x3. Actually, I tested more cars than lbjgh. I agreed with his Kia comments and we both arrived to the same conclusions, independently.

However, don't forget car companies are not great innovators, they are better integrators of available technology in the marketplace.

Is that not what Hyundai is doing? Do I really need the BMW design cues when Hyundai will rip off in two years?

BMW prides itself on this zero maintenance. Whoopie. Thanks for three or five oil changes. Isn't the real cost savings going to be driven largely by--initial cost? Even with a few basis point difference in residuals-wont make up the difference.

Again, I'm I BMW groupee, but can't avoid the obvious up and comers in the value segment.
 

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I guess I didnt articulate my point well enough

Look lets get down to brass tacks: Hyundai can put in the electronics, the nicer leather,pearl paint...but their technology for improved suspensions, engines, bushings, springs, etc will not be as good because they do not put their money there.
 

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Ok, so I bought both cars within 2 months of each other, the Santa Fe loaded for my wife and the BMW x3 2.8, pretty loaded for myself. There is no comparison. End of subject. The Santa Fe is much cruder, and frankly, we are fairly disappointed with it. Gas mileage has been poor, ride is clunky, the stereo has lots of flaws, as does the Nav. While the BMW has a few corners cut that my 2005 x3 had, it is constantly a pleasant surprise in comparison. If I hadn't leased the Santa Fe, I would consider dumping it.
 

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It was a 2012 (the older model). Just to be clear, however, there were several areas where my 2005 x3 was better than the Santa Fe as well. Utter lack of attention to detail. Functional, but crude. What I call "Check the box" design. Yeah it had the stuff but in a poorly coupled way. Reminded me of Acura's stereos and dashboard on her previous MDX. Lots of poorly implemented functions arranged in a confusing fashion. Stuff that isn't turn up in a test drive, but became very frustrating on a long trip.

I can believe they could do better with a rebooted design. The mechanical integrity of the doors and the frame is good, and the external style is what drew us to the car in the first place (as well as the 5 yr warranty).
 

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The Santa Fe is a wonderful vehicle, but the driving and the extras with the X3 is not that great of a price gap. If Hyundai did copy some of the creative efforts of others, this would only benefit consumers overall (unlike the opinions of Apple).
 

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Kia had a lot of the new stuff now available on the Santa Fe. I priced the Kia and found that it almost got to $40K! My Limited Santa Fe with virtually every option stickered at ~$6k less. Now while thy now have Comort Access keys, and apanaramic roof, and a NAV screen that is up high where BMW has always had it on oth my x3s, their gas mileage is still suspect. The Limited version is not yet on their website. So while they can copy the checklist, there is no way it is as good as virtually any of the German or Japanese luxury vehicles.

Don't get me wrong, the Hyundai was god deal for what I paid for it, but with the higher prices, it has to compete with the MDX and the Q5 and the x3 and you can't put the "Yeah but it's cheaper and good enough"
 
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