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is a Texan
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey Z4 crowd!

I'm looking into a used Z4 with only 14,010 miles on it. I see the dealer's asking price and think it is a bit high for no warranty. I was hoping those of you who have been around these cars a good bit more than I could offer some insight into a fair offer for such a car.

Details:

2003 Z4 3.0i
14,047 Miles
One owner, no wrecks, etc
6 Speed Manual
Sterl Green Ext./Red Leather Int.
Xenon Headlamps
Non-NAV
Non-Heated Seats
Electric Seats
Electric Top
Wood Trim :)eek: easy fix)
Oil changed every 6 months/12 months
Nothing is noted as having been replaced (Radio, electric top motor, etc)
Not a CPOed

The car has a lot going for it that I like. Being color blind, the 'Sterl Green' looks like Sterling Gray Metallic to me; it has the must-have manual, the 3.0, has low mileage and has an engine that I am familiar with (maintenance wise, so no worries there).

The only issue:

BMW dealership is asking $20,900. Carfax shows the car has been offered for sale since November 2010. I plan to verify nothing is wrong with it, which would explain its not moving. I pressume it is more a matter of price and their willingness to budge.

KBB shows close (but lower) to that as the dealer asking price (Excellent condition) with Edmunds (and their T.M.V.) showing around $16,000 as the appropriate selling price.

The dealership is two hours away from me, so before I take the haul, whats a fair price and the top dollar in which this car should sale for in your opinion?

Much thanks,
Jake

All important pictures:






 

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Hi Jake, That is one low mileage '03 Z4. I don't know what 'Sterl Green' is. Urban green was the offered color. From the pictures this car looks like Sterling Grey. The Big plus is low mileage, but it appears to be rather lightly optioned, no auto heater or heated seats(the ladies love heated seats!) However, 6 speeds are hard to find and the elec seats, Xenon Headlamps are really nice.
Here is a summary of the packages offered.
2003 Model Year Z4 3.0i Packages
Premium Package (PP)
-Fully Automatic Softtop
-Power Seat Adjustment with Driver Memory with Driver Memory
- Cruise Control
- Leather Upholstery

Convenience Package (CV)
- Auto Dimming Interior/Exterior Mirrors Mirrors
- Storage Package (nets behind the seats and in the passenger foot well)
- Rain Sensor wipers
- Automatic headlight control
- Automatic climate control
- On-board four-function computer

I think 20k is big money for this car. The 16-17 range is more appropriate, 18 max??. I'd look at some comps if possible. Good luck!
 

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Proud Canadian, I'm Sorry
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I have to agree....anything over 17 is a bit much...sure low mileage, but still if their asking price is higher than KBB, Edmunds, etc...that tells you a thing or two! If warranty was added, then sure closer to 17-18 at best. Fine looking car, but don't overpay!
 

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I can tell you this, they got profit built into that price for sure, tell them the price is about 3 grand higher than you were looking to pay, thanks but no thanks, another deal will come along. Then if they don't call you back look for a better deal, I would bet money they call you back and reduce the price. When they do agree to buy only if they also throw in a 3 yr/ 36 mile bumper to bumper, and get all maintenance up to date. They can't expect you to buy a BMW without some sort of warranty. ;)
 

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BMW Enthusiast!
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Pictures are grey, not green! Perhaps your color vision is spot-on!

Not many options shown in pics. Offer KBB price max.
 

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is a Texan
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Appreciate all the input. I haven't heard back from the sales rep about availability of warranty, current maintenance, etc.

I think the $16K-17K figure is where I'd be happy, any more than that and I may just be better off finding a proper CPO Z4, higher mileage or not.

I can tell you this, they got profit built into that price for sure, tell them the price is about 3 grand higher than you were looking to pay, thanks but no thanks, another deal will come along. Then if they don't call you back look for a better deal, I would bet money they call you back and reduce the price. When they do agree to buy only if they also throw in a 3 yr/ 36 mile bumper to bumper, and get all maintenance up to date. They can't expect you to buy a BMW without some sort of warranty. ;)
Yeah, I've done some research and it seems the $3K markup is a likely senario. I'm not too worried about the lack of warranty as long as the price reflects it. I'm familiar with the engine and its stong/weak points since it is the bigger brother to my current 2.5L M54. I don't mind turning a wrench on it, even if that comes to fixing the inevitable probelms with the electric top motor when water screws it up. I hope to find a lot of good things with it though, in regards to new tires with no flat spots from sitting, new OEM battery, fluids (brake even), etc.

Pictures are grey, not green! Perhaps your color vision is spot-on!

Not many options shown in pics. Offer KBB price max.
Haha, I'm good with my 'greys'...since everything is grey-ish in my eyes :D

I'm not turned off by the simple options package. I've never owned heated seats and will probably make out better in the long run if I don't expose myself to such luxuries and end up adding that to my "can't go without" list.

The lack of steering wheels radio/etc controls I'm ok with since it is the '03, I don't mind the manual HVAC controls either. The exterior color, 3.0, 6MT and non-black interior is what sells me on the car.

If I recall, the KBB price was high $19K. I don't think I would be a buyer near that, althought looking at comps with 40K-60K miles (with most being the 2.5L), they run in the ~$15K+ range so maybe I'm just being a bit cheap.

I will see what the SR has to say today and see what we find out.

Thanks again.
 

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Nice car, too expensive. I'd be worried about one thing only: the EPS (electronic power steering). These go bad on the early cars and are one one the most expensive things to fix on a Z4. I think it's a dealer job mostly, and the cost to do mine (under warranty) was close to 5 grand. If the car has been sitting around a lot, stuff may fail with sudden frequent use.
 

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is a Texan
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
:wow: I didn't see any mention of that in my research, will dig deeper on the topic, thanks for the mention.

Why the heck did they switch to EPS anyways? I'm familiar with the pros/cons of it.

You nailed my one biggest worry; extrememly low miles can sometimes be a bad thing for cars since they just sit, I've always been of the mindset that putting miles on is a healthy habit for a car in the long run....hopefully we [dealership and I] can work towards some sort of warranty.
 

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is a Texan
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Well, just got in touch with the SA and the car has been sold. He wouldn't inform me of the selling price though, oh well, on the hunt again!

Thanks for all the info, we will see if I end up back here!
 

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FYI; 20k for that car WAS a great price. Manheim #s are below. Briefly,lowest mileage @ 32k sold at the auction for $15,100

03/22/11 HOBBY Regular $6,400 135,977 Below BLACK 6G 6 Yes
03/31/11 MISS Lease $11,100 81,966 Avg SLV 6G A Yes
04/05/11 SKYLINE Regular $11,400 73,647 Avg BLACK 6G M Yes
03/24/11 ATLANTA Regular $12,000 93,450 Avg Gray 6CY M No
03/29/11 RIVRSIDE Regular $13,000 60,000 Avg Black 4CY A Yes
03/23/11 SEATTLE Lease $14,400 53,375 Avg GRAY 6G A Yes
04/01/11 MANHEIM Regular $15,100 31,975 Avg GREY 6G Yes
 

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BMW Enthusiast!
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Well, just got in touch with the SA and the car has been sold. He wouldn't inform me of the selling price though, oh well, on the hunt again!

Thanks for all the info, we will see if I end up back here!
I am sure you will find one. Unfortunately, getting into summer and thus higher asking prices.

Good luck in your search!
 

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Small world.... I saw that car when it first came into the dealership. My x3 was being serviced and I was going to test drive but they wanted to clean it up first. WoW! I didn't like to color it looks more green in person and with the red seats was a bit different. I think it has been sold for a while now.....
 

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FYI; 20k for that car WAS a great price. Manheim #s are below. Briefly,lowest mileage @ 32k sold at the auction for $15,100

03/22/11 HOBBY Regular $6,400 135,977 Below BLACK 6G 6 Yes
03/31/11 MISS Lease $11,100 81,966 Avg SLV 6G A Yes
04/05/11 SKYLINE Regular $11,400 73,647 Avg BLACK 6G M Yes
03/24/11 ATLANTA Regular $12,000 93,450 Avg Gray 6CY M No
03/29/11 RIVRSIDE Regular $13,000 60,000 Avg Black 4CY A Yes
03/23/11 SEATTLE Lease $14,400 53,375 Avg GRAY 6G A Yes
04/01/11 MANHEIM Regular $15,100 31,975 Avg GREY 6G Yes
Seriously? The most expensive car on your list sold for 15,100. I doubt 16k less miles would warrant an extra $5K...

$20K, or so will buy a newer Z4(possibly even with the si 3.0l motor). I would not be looking at an 03 unless it was a steal considering the upgrades which were made later in the run.
 

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Doing the best I can
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Seriously? The most expensive car on your list sold for 15,100. I doubt 16k less miles would warrant an extra $5K...

$20K, or so will buy a newer Z4(possibly even with the si 3.0l motor). I would not be looking at an 03 unless it was a steal considering the upgrades which were made later in the run.
You are exactly right. I just bought my '06 si (in Feb) with 36K miles w/ sport, heated seats, premium for $18.9. It is in excellent condition and not wrecked. Do not believe KBB. The data is skewed to favor dealers. Trade in value is low and resale value is high. My experience is you can deduct about $3-4K off KBB and be close to true value.
 

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is a Texan
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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Small world.... I saw that car when it first came into the dealership. My x3 was being serviced and I was going to test drive but they wanted to clean it up first. WoW! I didn't like to color it looks more green in person and with the red seats was a bit different. I think it has been sold for a while now.....
I figured they may be a Pittsburgh area member on here :)

I talked to Josh Simpson and he gave me the impression that the car was still available (and the website showed it to be) until he emailed this evening saying it was sold but he would look out for others for me.

You have good experiences with P&W BMW?

You are exactly right. I just bought my '06 si (in Feb) with 36K miles w/ sport, heated seats, premium for $18.9. It is in excellent condition and not wrecked. Do not believe KBB. The data is skewed to favor dealers. Trade in value is low and resale value is high. My experience is you can deduct about $3-4K off KBB and be close to true value.
KBB does lend itself to the extreme top end. Edmunds is rumored to be on point more so than some. Saying should go; "Sell you car according to KBB, buy a car according to Edmunds".

Last car I looked at ('08 328i, ZSP) was asking a pretty hefty price (KBB range) so I went in and started negotiating towards $4K off the asking price, the SA actually laughed in my face and told me I was "silly" for thinking that was possible.....pricks. :tsk:

I think I'm going to keep looking and try to find something newer with around the 50K mark, we'll see what I find.
 

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RE:"Seriously? The most expensive car on your list sold for 15,100. I doubt 16k less miles would warrant an extra $5K..." Yes, those are auction prices; noticably absent is the auction fee, transportation, reconditioning, state inspection, any sort of profit for the dealer..... I was maybe, maybe just thinking that the OP didn't have dealer's license or he wouldn't be asking the question in the first place. In addition, the lowest mileage on that list was in the 30's...so, yes, "seriously" 20k was a great price on a 14k car he missed out on. I'm sure though, given another 6-8 months, well out of convertible season, he can probably find one for 16-18. Time will definitely tell.
 

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..and yes, you probably can find a cheaper one if you look hard enough. A specific market will determine the final selling price. That specific market may one seller that either doesn't want the car or just needs to get rid of it because he's moving..there a million different reasons why one may be found cheaper. All I did was show you the actual auction numbers to try and offer a lttle insight. I actually 2nd-guessed myself and though I had put in the wrong year when those numbers came up. Who knows..
 

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Just for kicks, here are the numbers for a 2006 Si:
07/17/09 NASHVILL Lease $25,770 18,006 Avg SILVER 6G P No
07/22/09 ATLANTA Regular $21,300 16,659 Avg DK BLUE 6G A No
07/30/09 W PALM Lease $19,200 37,934 Avg SILVER G 6G 6 No
09/16/09 ATLANTA Lease $19,000 49,367 Avg TITANIUM 6G A No
10/14/09 ATLANTA Lease $17,200 18,794 Avg MONTEGO 6G 6 No
11/24/09 FAAO Regular $20,200 14,514 Avg GRAY 6G A No
03/10/10 DALLAS Regular $19,700 34,649 Avg RED 6G A No
03/23/10 FAAO Lease $22,400 12,335 Avg TITANIUM 6G 6 No
10/06/10 DALLAS Regular $19,000 24,548 Avg BLUE 6G 6 No
01/20/11 CARIB Lease $20,100 21,781 Avg SILVER 6G A No
01/27/11 DARLNTON Lease $15,800 41,492 Avg RED 6G A No
03/10/11 RIVRSIDE Lease $22,250 26,522 Avg SILVER 6G 6 No
 

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I purchased my z4 from them and had my x3 serviced there twice. I have not had a bad experience is all I can say... Don't really ever trust any of them. They are convenient for me because I lunch in the area. I thought I negotiated a good price but I always "feel" ripped off, lol I'm extremely satisfied with the car!
 

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is a Texan
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
I'm sure though, given another 6-8 months, well out of convertible season, he can probably find one for 16-18. Time will definitely tell.
I'm actually hoping for the opposite. Granted, I'm aware of the price hike during spring/summer, but along with that comes more variety as those sellers waiting out the winter months (to avoid a low price sell) come out of the garage to offer it up for sale.

I'm more than willing to pay a fair price, simply exhausted with searching for something that grabs my attention in what seems to be a limited market in this neck of the woods.

I purchased my z4 from them and had my x3 serviced there twice. I have not had a bad experience is all I can say... Don't really ever trust any of them. They are convenient for me because I lunch in the area. I thought I negotiated a good price but I always "feel" ripped off, lol I'm extremely satisfied with the car!
Thanks for the experience. I guess what had me on edge is your comment about thinking that this particular car had been gone for some time...yet I was lead to believe it was available. Not that they were exercising any extremely shady practices but thought I would want to know if it was their game to lure someone in to attempt a sale on another vehicle.

While not exactly in my back yard, those dealers around me seem to shy away from manuals as far as I can tell so it is proving to be difficult to find a nice car that I don't have to travel for.
 
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