I am a firm believer in changing the fluid(s). Changed mine at about 78k, new filter & ZF fluid as a kit from FCPeuro. 1st time changed about 4.5 liters with the filter, then I did a drain & fill again 84k, replacing about 4 liters. I returned the old fluid to FCPeuro for refund. Also changed transfer case & differentials. I like the old type maintenance that Mike Miller recommends.

 

Quick Question - I thought that the FCP ZF transmission change kit (and video) provided by FCP implied that all the fluid was drained (when the pan was dropped). Wondered how you were able to remove only ~1/2 of the expected amount?
LMK.
thanks!

 

Hi,

Thanks for your reply....Im curious why you changed the fluid twice in such a short time ?
Did the gearbox feel any different after the oil change ?

I have changed the oil in the transfer box a short while ago and Im now considering doing the axles

Cheers
Steve

 

I think the transmission holds about 9 liters. Doing a filter & fluid change only replaces about half of the fluid. So I like to do a drain & fill shortly afterwards to remove additional fluid (and clutch particles). There's a formula that calculates the % of new fluid for each drain & fill. It's my belief that the additives wear out & should be replenished.

 

It's my belief that the additives wear out & should be replenished.

Mine too! Oil Analysis on my transmission oil @ 60k confirmed this.

 

Service your transmission as per ZF recommendations (their “dump & fill” method w/ secondary fill @ temperature and cycling thru the gears).
Consider replacing your mechtronic sleeve as PM while you’re at it.

As Rav31 said, I completely agree with changing oil again (not filter) shortly after as the service procedure only replaces about 1/2 to 2/3 of your oil.

Don’t do any “forced flush” methods to exchange the fluid using pressure. That’s where you run the risk of dislodging particulate matter.

Lifetime fluid is a ridiculously relative term

 

life time just means for the lifetime of the car AFA BMW are concerned (out of the warranty period) and or 100k
doesn't mean anything else, and nothing is implied in any small print.
it's not forever as some people thing, or 10 years or how long you have the car or how long the first user has the car.
just the period of time that BMW will warranty it, not extended warranty. so 4 years, I've also seen somewhere that lifetime means 100k

Do any type of fluid changes at appropriate intervals, sooner or more often, won't hurt.

As we all know nothing lasts a lifetime even your own life LOL

Lifetime fluid is a ridiculously relative term

 

Thanks all

 

FCP no longer carries the ZFP transmission change it, rather they are kitting the OE(M?) ZF pan/filter with Liquid Moly Top Tec 1800 AT fliud. Any concern with using a non-OE/OEM fluid?
My F34 is due for a change.
LMK.

Thanks all y'all!

 

FCP no longer carries the ZFP transmission change it, rather they are kitting the OE(M?) ZF pan/filter with Liquid Moly Top Tec 1800 AT fliud. Any concern with using a non-OE/OEM fluid?
My F34 is due for a change.
LMK.

Thanks all y'all!

They also sell the Pentosin fluid, as I have seen, is an equivalent to the ZF fluid. I'm not sure about the LM stuff. I wouldn't hesitate to use the Pentosin, but that's my opinion. I'm sure others have their favorite brew.

 

I would use ATF8 from Pentosin over the LM stuff. The LM stuff claims to be compatible with a long list of fluid. I would rather use a fluid from a reputable company that claims to be a dedicated replacement of ZF LG8 over an universal fluid that is compatible for everything under the sun.

 

Agreed. From the collective experience, the best course of action may be to buy a couple of 5L Pentosin ATF8 jugs and refill them after a few miles.

 

 

has 111k on the clock and has been used for towing occasionally....

Heat is the killer of trans fluid lifespan, and towing is a surefire method to increase trans fluid temperature. Modern, low-speed, lockup torque converters reduce that somewhat but it’s still a good way to do it.

Rule of thumb is that every 20degF increase in fluid temp above normal operating (195F) will half the lifespan of the fluid.
If you ever get a trans fluid temperature warning then your next service should include fluid change. If you haven’t done it and your vehicle has 110,000 miles then do it now.

 

Hi All,

Just a quick question....I'm doing my transmission fluid change next week on my BMW X5 30d F15

I've rehearsed all the procedures and I'm pretty confident with everything such as cold fill, then topping up at operating temperature etc....Im also doing it on a proper post lift which will be better than lying under the car !

My one question relates to what temperature the fluid needs to be when I drain the old oil? I'm aware that if its too hot the fluid from the cooler will potentially drain out too which will give me a false level when the colder fresh fluid is topped up, (as the by pass valve will presumably be closed ?) . This will require the total fluid to be taken over the upper temperature level to allow the new and old fluids to mix.
I have to drive the car 40 miles to the facility on a combination of motorway and country lanes so the transmission fluid will be quite hot when I get there, and I only have 4 hours to do the job.

Any advice would be gratefully received

Thanks

Steve

 

 

Hi Rav31

Thanks for the info.

The F15 has tons of space where the oil filler plug is....speaking with a BMW mechanic, he tells the special tools above are designed for the 5 series and X1s where space is tight and are not required. I understand a suitably sized hex socket and calibrated torque wrench will be sufficient for removing the old filler plug and replacing the new with gasket.

From the info above then, I'm guessing if the temp is between 30 and 40 deg C when draining off and removing the oil pan, then the oil from the cooler will not be be removed. Can you confirm that is correct ?

Thanks

Steve

 

Hi,

Thats great info....I presume everything is running OK after the new fluid ?
How many miles did your beemer have on the old oil ?

Thanks again

Steve

 

Car did fine. 1st change was at 78k miles. Old fluid & filter didn't look that bad. Took about 4.5 liters.
I didn't drain & fill again @ 86k miles. To approx 4 liters.
Can't really feel much difference with either change. ZF shifts so nice even before tge changes.
Heat weakens ATF fluids & filter doesn't filter out much of the clutch material (black stuff) so that's the reason for 2nd drain & fill. Got my 1st & 2nd ZF fluid from FCPEURO & was able to return 2nd old fluid for refund per their lifetime warranty replacement. So 2nd change didn't cost much, just shipping.

 

Temp at drain only has a temperature related effect of the fluid coming out faster and more dripping out. Not enough to make a difference in how much old fluid leaves, maybe 3-4 ounces max. The final result when you run it will be all fluid passages filled, and more importantly, the torque converter filled and all air displaced. The reason you can't check auto transmissions without it running is that the torque converter and hydraulic oil circuits drain down and fluid level then is unpredictable. Once you run it and it gets to the temp range then the quantity and the level of different ambient temps is not a huge variable. The fluid expands with higher temp and the worry that someone somewhere could be in a shop that is 5C (or not in a shop at all at an even lower temp) and when the fluid gets to an expected max temp it will be up in the path of rotating geartrain and foam up.

 

Has anyone tried the aluminum PPE pan in their F15? Accessing the rear bolts on the plastic pan is a real challenge, and was wondering if the deeper aluminum PPE pan would make it even more difficult. I recently did a transmission fluid change using the Liquid Moly Top Tec 1800 and the shifting is harsher than before, so I'm going to go back to the original ZF Lifeguard 8 and thought in the process I'd install the PPE pan if others have found it does not complicate access to those rear bolts.

 

Has anyone tried the aluminum PPE pan in their F15? Accessing the rear bolts on the plastic pan is a real challenge, and was wondering if the deeper aluminum PPE pan would make it even more difficult.

No "hands-on" experience with installing an aluminum pan here; however, my gut reaction tells me that a deeper pan will not make access to bolts any easier.

I seriously considered switching over to an aluminum pan on my F10. Extra liter of fluid - better thermal conductivity - accessible filter for future replacement. At first it seemed like a "no-brainer" to me. Then I started to weigh in the factor of filtration integrity and I was never able to be 100% confident that any aftermarket filter would perform equally, if not better, than the Filtran/Hengst filters ZF uses.

For me at least, the risk of subpar filtration outweighed all the other benefits combined..

I'd love to see some feedback from people who have used aluminum pans for an extended time.
I could never find any.

Here's a video a fellow Bimmerfest member shared with me when I was inquiring:

 

Hi All,

Update on the new oil change.....
Could not get the transmission temperature to below 40 deg C after long drive to the garage even after a couple of hours. As I had rented the ramp for half a day I needed to make a start.

I managed to drain off approx 4 litres of old hot transmission oil and replenished with same quantity of fresh Lifeguard 8 after fitting new plastic oil pan and filter. (those 3 x front bolts are actually a pain in the a@@)
Went through coldish fill which was still above 40degC then went through the gears, then operating temp fill but temp was still 57 deg C.
ZF recommend adding an additional 0.5l which I did by tilting car.

Just on the drive back everything feels amazingly smoother now and I'm pretty confident the fill level is correct. I may use the rheingold oil balancing programme when cold to double check.

Would anyone recommend dropping another 4 litres in a few weeks and doing the same as I still have 4 litres of new stuff remaining ?

Thanks for all your previous comments and advice

Steve

 

Would anyone recommend dropping another 4 litres in a few weeks and doing the same as I still have 4 litres of new stuff remaining ?

Yes!

A second "dump & fill" (no pan/filter replacement) will get your transmission oil to be about 70-80% "new".

It just seems like a smart decision to me.

I'll do it again in about 10k miles. That's just my thing, as I do this in all my cars & trucks.

Agree! Some will say it's a bit overkill but why not maintain the longevity of your transmission by cycling in fresh oil? Especially if you're doing the work yourself.

 

Not sure you needed to tilt the car to add that 1/2 ltr as, you don't want to over fill it either. My old filter & oil didn't look too bad when I did the 1st change, so I drove the car about another 7500 miles & did a 2nd Drain & Fill, which made it somewhere about 70% total fresh fluid. I'll do it again in about 10k miles. That's just my thing, as I do this in all my cars & trucks.

 

The fill temp is plug level at 40C to 50C. I would not expect 1/2 litre needed for 7 C of expansion. 1/2 L is not likely to be so high as to be up to the rotating gear train. I would not drop pan as that usually gets you to a 5+ litre needed refill, just drain through plug and refill to be sure you have enough fluid. You are checking the fluid level with engine running and vehicle level? The fill level is full to fill plug height at 40 to 50 C fluid temp with engine running so the transmission pump is running and all the hydraulic circuits and torque converter are filled. Once the engine is off, the fluid drain down of the torque converter and the other hydraulic circuits starts.

 

Unfortunately a lot of bad information in this thread. A fluid change requires three main components to be successful:

• Transmission oil temp between 40-50C
• car must be running
• car should be level

Most kits provide 7L of oil in the exchange kits. I have added about 6.4-6.5L when refilling a 8HP75. If you only fill 4-5L, your temperatures are not likely correct which will result in hard jerky shifts when engine is cold and possible slipping in 3rd or 4th gear.
BMW tool not needed, a 8mm Socket on a 3/8" ratchet does perfect, even without gloves (for the exhaust)

 

lifetime means 100k or 4 years, not forever, and possible worth opening a new thread, not reopening a thread from 2022

 

No, lifetime means the lifetime of the transmission (30k miles or 100k miles or .......). As long as the transmission makes it beyond the manufacturers warranty BMW doesn't really care.

Oh, and why so much grief about posting on a year old thread? If it's on topic it's on topic!!!

 

You generally don't reopen old threads, on any forum I've been on or am on, there is a notice advisement even saying this. The only time I would say to re-open an old thread, is if the OP, comes back and gives a fix saying similar to "sorry for the delay but I managed to get my doofer valve fixed and that resolved the issue" that's common and acceptable.

It's not grief, it's advisement btw,

 

You generally don't reopen old threads

Re-open? It wasn’t closed. The “reopening” post at #40 wasn’t a question or a new problem they were responding directly to the discussion in this thread. Why would they open a new thread to post what they did?
What they said was specifically relevant to and a continuation of what was said previously.
Or did you want yet another thread on the suffixed “lifetime fluid” throwaway comment you chose to isolate and comment on.