G.hess

G.HESS · Jan 4, 2011

Greetings to all. This is a great forum and a very valuable service to all us DIY'rs.
My 2003 525i has a noise maybe best described like shaking a metal chain or shaking a few rocks in a can when starting after sitting overnight. The colder the day the more pronounced the noise. The noise subsides after a couple of minutes. It has done that since I purchased the car in 2003. The dealor has changed the idlers two or three times but says they can't fix the problem. There is 50K miles on the car.

I will sure be greatful for any comments on this.

cn90 · Jan 4, 2011

Welcome,

Lifter noise common in M54 engine.

bmw_n00b13 · Jan 4, 2011

Does it sound like this (VANOS rattle) It could be the VANOS making an irritating noise. It has been frequently described as marbles in a coffee tin.
Beisansystems.com for more information.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WHgZS5KrzI&feature=related

Fudman · Jan 4, 2011

+1 Sounds like Vanos bearing rattle. Typically occurs only on cold starts and then goes away after a few minutes. My brother in law has the same issue on his e60 (M54 too).

bluebee · Jan 4, 2011

Did the YouTube link change?

I clicked on the link above and got this???

I didn't do a search because I thought this was a link to a video of VANOS rattle

G.HESS · Jan 4, 2011

Thanks very much for the responses to my 525i start up noise. Aside from my wife's concern about the noise it doesn't seem to "hurt the runnin of it none." It is hard for me to believe that this is normal, as Cunningham BMW says, for an engine that in the past I have had so much regard for. I'm hoping that I can find a fix for the problem short of a complete rebuild of assemblies which I can't afford. Thanks again for the quick responses.
G. HESS

doru · Jan 4, 2011

Also, check for loose heatshield (although I doubt that's the cause, but it's an easy fix)

TemporarySanity · Jan 4, 2011

The oil itself may lost much of its properties if it's overdue for a change or if the wrong oil was used can cause excessive engine noise.

bmw_n00b13 · Jan 4, 2011

Sorry for the bad Youtube link. Mobile site apparently doesn't work on desktop browsers. lmgtfy.com/?q=VANOS+rattle

BMW dealers are notorious for telling customers "it's normal". That's one of the reasons why going to the dealer is not a good idea.

Fudman · Jan 5, 2011

Recommended Diagnosis: On the next cold start, listen carefully to your engine at the front of the plastic valve cover. If the rattling (marbles in a can) comes from that location, it is most likely your Vanos bearings. If this is your problem, read on. Otherwise skip to another thread!

Problem Description (if Vanos): Go to the website beisansystems.com for a complete detailed technical description of the various Vanos (BMW variable timing system) problems. All I6 M54 engines have the dual Vanos system and the Vanos seals are documented to have degraded over a relatively short period of time. Don't worry, this problem is in every M54 and is not a fatal flaw. In fact, most M54s do not exhibit obvious symptoms (poor idle, hesitation, etc.) of the problem and engine performance (slight reduction in gas mileage, torque, etc.) degrades very slowly over time and is usually not noticeable. Most e39 owners are either unaware of this problem (if they do not have any obvious symptoms) or choose to ignore the symptoms. In addition to the seals, the bearings in the Vanos system are prone to degrade but this flaw is considerably rarer. The symptom is the rattling at cold start that goes away at warm up. You can choose to ignore these issues or fix it. Do a search on this forum to read what those who have done the seal replacement think of it, as this is a totally subjective viewpoint and has been subject to extensive discussion on this forum.

Solution: Beisansystems sells the seals and bearings, if you are game for a DIY (~4-6 hrs). If you are less handy, get a rebuilt Vanos from Dr. Vanos.com (same upgraded seals) and this will save you the Vanos disassembly/reassembly work and cut the job to ~3-4 hrs. Or have a shop install either solution.

If you resolve this problem, please post back on what was the cause of the problem and your solution. This is very helpful to everyone. Good luck and welcome to the 'Fest! :thumbup:

G.HESS · Jan 5, 2011

Thanks again to you all for the help. I have, in the past, felt that the problem is in the Vanos as Fudman suggests and I have studied the Beisansystems website. As a pilot and aircraft mechanic I've been inside of a lot of engines but I'm just learning about BMWs and appreciate your help. Problem is that at 81 years of age I've got to get moving fast!!
G.HESS

Fudman · Jan 5, 2011

As an experienced wrencher, you'll have NO PROBLEM with a Vanos job. The DIY procedure is extremely well documented with photo support. Read it over several times and you'll see that there is no magic involved and the skill level required is minimal. The toughest part is removing the fan clutch. I recommend getting the fan clutch tool. Some have success with using belt tension to hold the clutch but I found the tool to be worth the cost. BTW, Raj provides outstanding technical support for his product (seals & bearings) so you have support, if needed. Good luck and post if you have any issues or problems.

Flybot · Jan 5, 2011

Could be the airpump going out. Listen for it in the front right corner. It only runs for a few minutes on a cold engine.

G.HESS · Jan 5, 2011

Thanks Fudman and Flyot. I have a better insite to the problem than that gained by having the car in the shop for a total of 18 days.

bmw_n00b13 · Jan 5, 2011

It's no aircraft engine but you still turn the wrench the same direction to loosen stuff (except the fan clutch!). Good luck with the repair. My grandfather is 81 and still playing with cars (and a lot of heavy equipment) too! The directions are pretty clear. Make sure your torque wrench is close at had and calibrated.

doru · Jan 5, 2011

bmw_n00b13 said:
It's no aircraft engine but you still turn the wrench the same direction to loosen stuff (except the fan clutch!). Good luck with the repair. My grandfather is 81 and still playing with cars (and a lot of heavy equipment) too! The directions are pretty clear. Make sure your torque wrench is close at had and calibrated.

And the flimsy Vanos bolts.....

G.HESS · Jan 6, 2011

Thanks again to everyone. I think that I will uncover the Vanos and see what things look like. I have often made my own special tools but I think that I will buy some of them this time. Looks like there are several places that sell the BMW vanos tools. Is there a suggestion of a source with price in mind?

doru · Jan 6, 2011

Hello. You don't need any "special" Vanos tools. Only the single vanos units need that. You're golden.
The only "special" parts are the new improved Vanos seals from Beisan, if you want to DIY. (and maybe bearings)
Here linky

Fudman · Jan 6, 2011

You might need the fan clutch holder tool but maybe not, as many use the belt tension to hold things in place when whacking the 32mm wrench. Add a dab of anti-seize to the threads before reassembly and it will always be easy to come off in the future.

G.HESS · Jan 6, 2011

Best of the New Year to you all.....Thanks.

G.hess

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