Great job! I desperately need to do this. There seems to be so many options for catch cans but the setup seems to be the same (-> catch can -> PCV -> intake).

We as a forum should get together and decide what is ultimately the best setup. I wonder what German Auto Solutions are thinking right now.

 

Nice!

I think the BMW engineers should read this topic.
They make the CCV system way too complex for nothing.
Or maybe they should learn from the Japanese.

Or they should look back at the E23 (1977-1987 7-series) CCV system, it was so simple back then.

 

I failed to find any really clear step-by-step ones.

I have to agree that all the CCV-delete threads I've read were confusing, and most contained other people trying to figure it out, drawing (in at least two cases) incorrect pictures, and causing even more confusion, with very few clear pictures of the two systems side by side, laid out on the ground.

Your diagram modifications, such as this composite below, shows some of the confusing steps perfectly.

Also, this is a see-through catch-can, which is, obviously, a great idea, because you KNOW when/if it is full.

This diagram, made by someone else, and corrected slightly by me, also nicely shows the overall flow:

Please keep the details coming. This will almost certainly be a canonical keeper to refer others to, when it's their time to work on the CCV!

It would be nice to compare the costs of:
a) Replacing the CCV & hoses (perhaps with the cold weather version)
versus
b) The catch can replacement of the same parts (with elimination of some)

 

Shouldn't the valve be fitted the other way around? isn't the air flow going from the threaded part to the top? thanx

 

I still don't totally understand the stock CCV system but this install and the resulting DIY are wonderful.

One question:

Would one expect to see less and less accumulation of crud in the catch can/bottle after time or should that be fairly constant?

 

I still don't totally understand the stock CCV system

This thread has nice diagrams of the stock system:
- How the CCV system works (1)

See also:
- How the -CCV +PCV mod works (1) & how the -CCV +PCV +CATCHCAN mod works (1)

 

Materials
1. Oil catch can

One question about the catch can itself.

Would you think a typical compressor filter would work as well?

I used the original connectors from the CCV hoses. I cut the flex pipe parts off, leaving only the thick-walled quick disconnect pieces for further use.

This part still confuses me.

Do you have a closeup picture of how you connected the soft aftermarket pressure hose to the hard oem quick-disconnect pieces?

I don't see any clamps in the big picture, so that's why I'm confused how the hose stays on.

 

I really like the wysiwyg feature of the glass bowl. I'm guessing fewer issues in warmer climates

 

Bluebee,

I never run a cost analysis between the stock CCV and the catch can setup, as my main driver was to replace the CCV due to its terrible and damage-inducing design, not find a cost-efficient solution. Still. I estimate that the catch can setup is either on par or somewhat less expensive, depending on the materials choice.

As for the connectors, I do not have any pics handy at the moment. But using your photo as an example, I cut the straight section of the original connector (between its end and the 90deg-bend). The 3/4 hose slides on it nice and tight so I skipped the hose clamp. Similar approach was taken with the Y-connector that plugs into the manifold near the 1st cylinder. Although there I had to be a bit more inventive to connect it to a 3/8 hose. When I have an opportunity to pull it out, I'll take some photos.

Cannot really comment on the compressor filter really, since I assume it is made to deal mostly with water vapor, rather than a wacko hot mix of blow-by gasses, oil and water vapor. In other words, I dunno how it will fare in such a hostile environment.

 

Just curious, did you choose the 3/8 fittings on the catch can you ordered? I noticed there's a 1/2 connector version as well and wasn't exactly sure which one you ordered and why. Great work by the way!

 

Thanks! Actually, I specified 5/8 as the largest available for this type, since I was using 3/4 hose from the cam cover to the catch can.

 

Thanks for the info! I think my ccv valve is going and I'd rather do something like this instead of replacing with OEM stuff.

 

this sounds like the perfect thing for an aftermarket group to build, using OEM-like quick disconnect hoses to go onto the catch can, which will make general maintenance easier

 

Still Confused........

Hi Guys,

I am a newbie and have recently purchased a 1997 E39 for my daughter. It needs some urgent attention to the CCV and it has been great to be able to read all the info on the forums.

I have recoed the engine and replaced the transmission, and there are a few little times that I will replace to bring her up to spec.

OK the confusion is that most of the posts mention multiple hoses from the CCV (I think that 6 has been the most) The above post only shows 3. I assume that the drain into the dip stick pipe is omitted ( as the catch can takes its place) and the path is simply in and out. What to do with the other hoses if and how many there may be????

Also, any Aussies out there or knowledgable others who know what the best option is for getting a catch can system in Australia? Local or import ?

Great work guys, I am learning a lot

Thanks

MJ

 

Hi Guys,

posts mention multiple hoses from the CCV (I think that 6 has been the most) The above post only shows 3. I assume that the drain into the dip stick pipe is omitted ( as the catch can takes its place) and the path is simply in and out. What to do with the other hoses if and how many there may be????
MJ

Instead of guessing based on somebody's posts, it is always a good practice to look at some technical evidence.
It also is valuable to read up a bit on the theory behind to gain some basic understanding of the process this system looks after. So as not to dive into the subject blindfolded and screw something up as a result.
If you are looking at eliminating the CCV completely, you do not care about the # of hoses, you only worry about your connection points:
OUTLETS:
- one (1) output (from the cam cover outlet). This goes directly to catch can delivering the mix of water vapor, oil residue and blow-by gasses (stinky yellow goo).
- one (1) output from the catch can, that goes into the manifold.

INLETS:
- one (1) inlet/drain to the oil stick tube (which you cut off as shown and cap off the oil stick side).
- two (2) inlets into the intake manifold. One is main (between cylinder 1 and 2) and the second is auxiliary (near cylinder 5). They are connected between themselves via a hose that is worth keeping (see procedure description).

Also, any Aussies out there or knowledgable others who know what the best option is for getting a catch can system in Australia? Local or import ?
MJ

Google on any local performance forum (V8 Holdens or Fords, Subarus etc.) - they will give you some links. Or use Amazon/Ebay or order online directly.

 

Thanks Konishiki,
Excellent advice.

Actually this is part of the research I am doing to prevent screwups.

Some of the vacuum dependant switches attach to the CCV in some applications. I didn't want to plug up of those if they existed and disable any normal function of the BMW system. Different models appear to have different connections too.

I do understand how it works but I find its better to ask someone who has done it rather than blindly follow a technical publication from that era that these forums have already discovered differ and also may be misleading.

I had tried eBay here and they have given a selection albeit marked for different vehicle makes. I thought that there may have been a certain make /model that was particularly suited. I didn't think of Amazon etc so thanks for the advice on that. If any make/model will do then it is a matter of ensuring the outlet/inlets that exist are maintained with the exception of the dip stick drain.

I appreciate your advice and time
Thanks again.

MJ

 

Since I suggest reusing the BMW connectors (you only chop off the plastic pipes as shown in the original post), your only concern is the diameter of your hoses that you connect the catch can with the cam cover and the intake manifold. Yours being 97 and older CCV design, AFAIK you do have that extra vacuum hose from the CCV body that you have to plug. Otherwise it should be the same.
When you order a catch you often can specify its fittings diameter.

 

Thank you once again.

I saw previously the question as to whether the air compressor filter would suffice. I would doubt it as from memory they are quite a fine filter and the inlet /outlet sizes may be too small to allow a good flow. They are also designed to work at a much higher pressure.

I would have thought that even if they would provide enough flow they would clog up very quickly.

Cheers

MJ

 

You might also look into a water separator for diesel such as a racor brand available in the US. I imagine there would be an equivalent in your area. then just adapt the fiiting to what you need. Actually pretty simple. I would also think the air compresor separator should work because the oil coming in is a vapor.

 

Kosnishiki, did you plug this hose connect? i'm not sure what to do with this. i have a 528i wagon with the m52tu.

 

Kosnishiki, did you plug this hose connect? i'm not sure what to do with this. i have a 528i wagon with the m52tu.

Sorry mate, mine is M54 and does without this line to the fuel regulator. I would have to educate myself on M52TUs to provide you with an educated answer.

But at this point just a guess, you could probably get away with connecting this fuel reg line straight to the intake manifold which in the back has two smooth fittings of this diameter.

 

Thanks for the reply. I'll do some digging to see if anyone else has done this conversion, or try the fuel to intake idea you mentioned. Thanks again.

 

Sweet

 

Problem description

Original BMW design of the Crank Case Ventilation (CCV) device is extremely inefficient and failure-prone device. What is worse, its failure causes some serious damage to the whole engine. To add salt to injury, the worst failures happen in sub-zero temps when you really need your machine to be reliable. In certain parts of the world and in certain times the design of this kind would be considered sabotage.

While this and other BMW forums contain multiple descriptions of CCV delete procedure, I failed to find any really clear step-by-step ones.

What is being done
1. CCV completely removed.
2. Additional maintenance work "while you are there" - as required.
3. The oil catch can and a PCV valve introduced into the CCV circuit.

Goals
1. Eliminate a failure point that can cause complete engine break-down.
2. Eliminate water vapor and gunk from lubrication system
3. Eliminate or substantially decrease engine oil consumption.

Difficulty Level - 4/10.
It may look scary before you commence, but all it really takes is patience. And I cannot overstress the importance of good lighting. A regular portable 110V light with a 60W equivalent LED bulb is cheap and very effective. And even if you crash the bulb, it still works.
And finally, unless you have some super-strong back muscles or are really errrr…. vertically challenged, put the vehicle on ramps.

Materials

1. Oil catch can.

While there are dozens of cheap alternatives on fleabay, I selected this variant.
Positives: transparent, so I can easily monitor the level of "pulp"; it is glass, not plastic; internal vapor filter; quality construction.
Negatives: it is pretty expensive, would prefer larger volume.

Cheaper alternative

Negatives - it is made of plastic, too small volume, questionable drainage design.

2. Oil-resistant 3/4" & 3/8" 250 psi hoses (5ft of each in case you have botched a piece and need to recut them). with this psi rating the hose is stiff enough to prevent flattening with vacuum.
3. Connecting fittings
4. Hose clamps
5. Heavy duty heat shrink boot for electrical connections.
6. Some bracket or holder for the catch can
7. ***1052;6 lock nuts (2 ea).

What we do
1.
Remove the CCV. There are dozens of perfectly documented procedures already, just search them. I'll just outline the main steps:
- Remove the intake, MAF and the throttle.
- Cut off or break the plastic hoses to the CCV body.
- Pull the rotten contraption out.
- Plug the oil dipstick outlet.
If you are really lazy or in a rush, then just chop off the hoses as indicated and plug off the dipstick outlet.

2.
While you are at it, spend 10 minutes to remove DISA and check if its mechanism is good. I caught mine just before the failure with its pin travelling into the guts of the intake manifold and further. German Auto Solutions repair kit is a marvel worth every penny (but there will take lots of them).

3.
To simplify the install I used the original connectors from the CCV hoses. I cut the flex pipe parts off, leaving only the thick-walled quick disconnect pieces for further use. Clean of all dirt and burrs and install the hoses. Make sure the hoses are sat tight to avoid vacuum leaks.

4.
I kept the thin connector pipe that goes to the manifold far end as it was nearly new and clean.
5.
Cut of the oil drain rubber hose on the dipstick and plug it.
4.
Install the catch can. I used the stck bracket that came with the can and located it on the left fender bracket as shown below, using the threaded pins already welded in place. They are M6 thread.

5.
¾" hose connects the outlet on the cam cover with the catch can inlet and the catch can outlet with the FRAM FV345 PCV valve (off a 3.2/3.5L Chrysler engine).

After that I used 3/8" hose that goes all way to the modified BMW connector that plugs into the manifold in the front. I do not like the way I routed the 3/8" hose as it sags too much down, and eventually may modify that part.
5.
Install hose clamps as necessary to prevent any vacuum leaks and maintain the integrity of connections.

General view

Detailed view

Effectiveness.
The mod was completed and tried at -25degC (-13F for US folks). It took about 300 km (200 miles) of non-stop drive at 60-70 mph to fill the catch can with a yellow stinky mix of water condensate and oil vapor. It pains to see this pulp going into the oil pan.
Then the car was parked outside for a few hours and the same drive back - this time resulting only in ½ of the can filled with yellow gunk.

So far I racked up about 2000 km after all my mods and all my goals are met:
- 0 oil consumption detected (but I will need more kms put down to reliably claim that)
- I check several times the hose between the PCV valve and the intake and only saw a few clean droplets of oil there.

And by the way, if anybody is interested in exchanging a perfectly working SAP assembly, stock water pump and the CCV body for a bottle or two of rose wine (one from Dirty Laundry Winery in BC would be awesome thank you very much), please feel free to chime in. I am in Calgary.

I like your catch can / bottle.
Where did you get it?
How is the system holding up?
Thanks!
Jason

 

Jason, if you look up the original post, the link to the vendor was right in the list of catch can options.

Cheers,
K-L

 

I guess I owe an update to everybody who is interested in this mod.

At the time this thing was installed, the 530 had just a tad over 100K miles / 160K km on the odo. Today it is around 134K miles / 215K km.

Recently I removed the cam cover to fix a leak that turned out to be a crack in the cover. The engine is definitely much cleaner than when I saw its guts open the last time over.
JB-Weld was applied liberally. It ain't look beautiful but hell it works (for that I pulled off the cam cover after a few thousand clicks to check).

After fixing that I had to make an important change to my catch can configuration.
It turned out that the crack in the cover, aside from spilling oil, acted as a vacuum regulator. So once that leak was gone the vacuum at idle became such that I could barely pull off the oil filler cap. That is way too much (BMW recommended level is 15-20 milliBar). So I added an adjustable mechanical vacuum control valve that sits on top of the hose that connects to the second branch of the dipstick Y-tube (originally connected to the CCV and plugged after it was removed). The valve was capped by a small K&N air filter, which in turn I wrapped with the filter element of a discarded engine air filter (it makes its operation quieter). The purpose of the vacuum regulator is preventing vacuum overbuild in the crank case.

Important note - Check if the hose sits tight on the dipstick. It can weaken with time and slide off (ask me how I know!). Clamping it is thus very much recommended.

So how well the mod holds, you may ask? In addition to the daily driver duty, recently I had two road trips from Cowtown down to SF Bay area, Vegas and back home, each around 4500-5000 miles.

Conditions varied.
In January I ran in pouring rain from I-5 till Vegas to get in time for CES-2016 opening. Then it was a thick fog at -26degC / -15F for 500 miles non-stop in Montana and Alberta, giving me this kind of automotive artwork when I finally got home...

A month ago I was in Cali again and drove in balmy +42C/108F near Sacramento. There were also tons of winding roads, awesome views and great backroads (and not so great traffic). Yosemite was very impressive as well.

In all these runs the 530 performed like a champ, never missing a beat. Oil consumption with sustained runs at 80-85 MPH is almost 0. After heavy and spirited runs in the summer heat in the mountains - I'd say around a quart per 3K miles / 5Kkm. Due to the dipstick hose incident and loss of quite a bit of oil during that I cannot give you exact numbers though.
It also pays to carry a 5L oil jug and a decent tool kit when you are travelling far from home (all repairs were done and oil was added on the roadside, no embarrassing tow truck ride required).

 

I guess I owe an update to everybody who is interested in this mod.

At the time this thing was installed, the 530 had just a tad over 100K miles / 160K km on the odo. Today it is around 134K miles / 215K km.

Recently I removed the cam cover to fix a leak that turned out to be a crack in the cover. The engine is definitely much cleaner than when I saw its guts open the last time over.
JB-Weld was applied liberally. It ain't look beautiful but hell it works (for that I pulled off the cam cover after a few thousand clicks to check).

After fixing that I had to make an important change to my catch can configuration.
It turned out that the crack in the cover, aside from spilling oil, acted as a vacuum regulator. So once that leak was gone the vacuum at idle became such that I could barely pull off the oil filler cap. That is way too much (BMW recommended level is 15-20 milliBar). So I added an adjustable mechanical vacuum control valve that sits on top of the hose that connects to the second branch of the dipstick Y-tube (originally connected to the CCV and plugged after it was removed). The valve was capped by a small K&N air filter, which in turn I wrapped with the filter element of a discarded engine air filter (it makes its operation quieter). The purpose of the vacuum regulator is preventing vacuum overbuild in the crank case.

Important note - Check if the hose sits tight on the dipstick. It can weaken with time and slide off (ask me how I know!). Clamping it is thus very much recommended.

So how well the mod holds, you may ask? In addition to the daily driver duty, recently I had two road trips from Cowtown down to SF Bay area, Vegas and back home, each around 4500-5000 miles.

Conditions varied.
In January I ran in pouring rain from I-5 till Vegas to get in time for CES-2016 opening. Then it was a thick fog at -26degC / -15F for 500 miles non-stop in Montana and Alberta, giving me this kind of automotive artwork when I finally got home...

A month ago I was in Cali again and drove in balmy +42C/108F near Sacramento. There were also tons of winding roads, awesome views and great backroads (and not so great traffic). Yosemite was very impressive as well.

In all these runs the 530 performed like a champ, never missing a beat. Oil consumption with sustained runs at 80-85 MPH is almost 0. After heavy and spirited runs in the summer heat in the mountains - I'd say around a quart per 3K miles / 5Kkm. Due to the dipstick hose incident and loss of quite a bit of oil during that I cannot give you exact numbers though.
It also pays to carry a 5L oil jug and a decent tool kit when you are travelling far from home (all repairs were done and oil was added on the roadside, no embarrassing tow truck ride required).

How are your fuel trims?
if you are not replacing outgoing crankcase pressure with metered air back into the crankcase?
I placed hose from the dipstick base to air intake boot with a check valve to stop oil under load from the crankcase from oozing Oil into the intake duct.
this way the system is a closed loop & the supply air is metered that goes around the crankcase ventilation and the catch can.
Admitedly I am yet to run the system for longer to see how the pressures are equalising adequately by varying hoses sizes and orifices.
for the Moment the fuel trims are balanced ok, which is a good start.

 

Has anyone else done this mod as above. Am in the process of installing the catch can and need to know if the dip stick end has to be shut close or do we leave it open with a vacuum regulator and filter. If so, what vacuum regulator and what vacuum ?

 

^This? I admit I am not done with the "Is that a catch can?..." thread, but I would like to know if catch can + pcv is "safe" in regards to vacuum pressure... Based on this tread it seems maybe not, but I got the impression a lot of people were having good luck on the other thread. My E46 doesn't use a lot of oil, but 190k on the CCV system has me weighting my options...

 

Just put a vacuum cap on the dipstick return pipe. No need for a regulator and filter.

 

I added another 10k miles on top of the reported above, including a similar winter run from Cowtown to Cali and back around Xmas.
The setup is unchanged, still giving zero trouble. The car still runs perfect. I fact, right now I am converting to the similar setup the second 530 that we recently bought for the wife.

 

^Thank you!

The more I read the more "safe" it seems (poolman, eparayno, and others seem to be doing fine!)... I'm now on page 9 (of the other thread). Seems too cost effective not to consider... Using no oil and keeping the intake manifold cleaner seems like a win win... so long as no seals are going to blow!

 

Yes block the dipstick oil return with a cap. I ran a catch can and PCV on my M54 E46 for over 100 k with zero issues. So far 15k in my 530 with no issues. I will never again run a CCV.

Sent from my LG-G6 using Tapatalk

 

Yes block the dipstick oil return with a cap. I ran a catch can and PCV on my M54 E46 for over 100 k with zero issues. So far 15k in my 530 with no issues. I will never again run a CCV.

Sent from my LG-G6 using Tapatalk

+100 on CCV. Seeing the yellow goo in the catch can in winter makes me feel yuugely smug, knowing none of this crap goes back into the engine. Or that it will clog the oil lines in sub-zero temps and piss engine with oil coming from everywhere.

On PCV and vacuum control, I tried with PCV only and was not happy with the vacuum level it gave (way too much) and went with the Vacuum control valve as a safety.