The nose of the input shaft isn't going into the pilot bearing in the flywheel. This is probably because the clutch assembly was installed without using a dummy pilot shaft to align the clutch pack with the centerline of the flywheel/crankshaft. He needs to drop the transmission out again, remove the clutch assembly, then reassemble it using a pilot shaft. By the way, the transmission needs to be perfectly aligned with the crankshaft and flywheel, or he can damage the new clutch trying to force it in. When it's right, the transmission will slide in flush with little effort.

Thumbs up for a mom willing to help out enough to actually get under the car!

 

I was going to say two things:
1: don't forget the pilot bearing!
2: did they align the clutch disc properly? (horn basically asked this)


BTW I did the same thing once upon a time (e30 auto-manual swap). totally worth it.

 

Melissa, this is what he needs. 28.5mm spline diameter, 10 splines, with an 11.9mm pilot to fit the 12mm pilot bearing in the flywheel. A decently stocked auto parts store should have one. They may even have one to loan/rent so he doesn't have to buy it, but they're cheap. Like less than $10 cheap.

 

Thank you!

Thank you Horn and u3b3.

Horn, I read your reply to my son last night who told me that "he had done all that already" (frustration level is rather high and his tone was a bit snippy ) He says he used the dummy pilot shaft and had assembled, disassembled and aligned the clutch pack three times (I refrained from telling him that he was going to have to do it again; I'll wait until he cools down.)

I will tell him to go get the "28.5mm spline diameter, 10 splines, with an 11.9mm pilot to fit the 12mm pilot bearing in the flywheel". Apparently, there is a good parts store nearby.

The problem I still see, though, is that it looks like there isn't quite enough space (height) in the transmission "well" to push the manual transmission up high enough to align properly with the clutch pack. The transmission looks like it needs to be raised another half inch or so (less than an inch), but pushing it up further just results in the car itself being raised. This is what makes me wonder if the transmission could possibly be the wrong size. I had read somewhere that the G260 came in slightly different sizes - one for the the 325i and one for the 325e (though I couldn't tell if the size differentials they were talking about were inside or outside of the housing.)

I was not planning on becoming any sort of an auto mechanic, but if he can't get this transmission in soon, I'm going to have to finish it myself (because I am not a quitter!) which will mean that I'll actually have to learn the part names, at the very least.

Thanks again for your advice.

 

AFAIK the differences in the G260s is just the shift lever mounting point - the engine it mounts to is the same, and the case is different only to accommodate the older style shifter.

IIRC the engine sits balanced on two mounts when the trans isn't attached. perhaps someone needs to hold the engine level while the trans is being installed?

 

Thanks u3. I'm afraid I don't know what "AFAIK" and "IIRC" stand for - though I understand the rest of your post.

He's using a lift to hold the transmission (and raise/lower it) and this has worked a whole lot better than when he and three friends were all grabbing a corner and trying to manually put it in place (for one thing, they didn't all fit well under the car).

I'll give him your thoughts on the engine leveling, though. Perhaps that will help. (I'm imaging that someone would push down on the engine block itself, thus bringing it down the extra half inch that seems to be needed?)

I told him to pull the whole thing out, and the clutch pack, too, so I could have a look at how it all goes together. (If nothing else, by the end of this project, he'll end up proficient at installing and removing the clutch pack!)

 

AFAIK: as far as I know
IIRC: if I recall correctly
FWIW: for what it's worth

FWIW: I installed mine by lying under the car and lifting the trans up off my chest. I think I had someone lift the front of the engine up to get me more clearance in the back. if the front is tilted down, then you would likely encounter the not enough room issue being described now. also putting the trans in gear (4th) so that the input shaft can be adjusted/rotated may be useful. There is very little play, and if it's not lined up just about perfectly, the misalignment torque on the input shaft may prevent it from sliding in easily.

I also didn't have an alignment tool, so I "eyeballed" the clutch disc on assembly. Same deal with my motorcycle (automotive style dry clutch). either I'm really good at it, or it's not that hard (and possibly/probably not the problem).

 

Thank you u3!

Appreciate the "new speak" acronym lesson as well as additional advice on aligning.

I suspect you are VERY good at this and not just lucky.

 

I do not envy your dilemma here. I replaced the clutch in my first E30 shortly after I bought it, at about 220K. That was a tough tranny to get back in. Fighting as issue such as this at the same time would be daunting. I would make sure that pieces do indeed fit where they are supposed to go. This with parts in hand, not mounted, of course. Also would use a tape measure to see if there isn't some odd obstacle - wrong components - of some sort.

Perhaps lowering the engine a bit to see if some sort of binding above is impeding progress. If it attaches one could then lift to see if some incompatibility is at play.

This is the sort of difficulty that really gives me pause at the notion of an engine swap. Aligning heavy parts in a new setting could be dicey.

This is an impressive bit of work for a 17 year old, even with success not yet in hand. If a breakthrough isn't found, perhaps you could find someone qualified who could drop in as a paid consultant. Would likely be a good bit cheaper than taking it in to a shop.

 

+1 on all the advise so far. Just as a thought - cast your logical eye over the fronts of the two boxes. Just make sure the pattern is the same. Jack/wedge up the front of the engine to align the parts more easily (been there, done that).

 

Success!

Hello Gentlemen (I assume you're all men...),

I wanted to report the outcome of our problem. After a 36 hour "cool down" period (during which I cleaned up the garage), my son was amenable to trying again. This time, before we started, we discussed all of the suggestions which you all have made on this thread, as well as my own observations about alignment, and we also discussed what each of our roles would be in another attempt to install the transmission (and how no one was allowed to raise their voice or use a snippy tone during the attempt).

My son was in charge of the transmission, engaging the shaft, etc., my husband was responsible for pushing/pulling on the engine from above to give us a better angle for attachment and I was responsible for the fine visuals as to whether or not the whole thing was coming in at a good angle before the shaft engaged the clutch pack splines. (I am the only detail oriented member of my family.) I was also responsible for inserting the metal dowels in the lower and left side bolt holes and through to the engine block (or where ever it is that they go). Using dowels to help align the transmission really helped (I read about that on another website). Not only did they ensure that the transmission was coming in at the right "rotation" (so - 3 o'clock on the transmission was lining up with 3 o'clock on the clutch pack/engine block) but they also provided some relief from a lifting/muscle requirement standpoint. Good idea.

Unfortunately, after all of these things, the transmission still wouldn't slide on. We could get it to within an inch of being flush with the clutch pack/engine, and then just couldn't get it any further. I did some crude measuring (with a drinking straw stuffed up into the cavity between the trans and the clutch pack - because we didn't want to push the trans back further and have to deal with pulling the stick shift out of the hole to the cab) and determined that the distance that we couldn't close was about equal to the depth of the pilot bearing hole (I've probably got this name wrong). Anyway, to me, this suggested that somehow this was an alignment problem were the shaft was hitting an edge of the pilot bearing (despite my son having used the fine alignment tool to assemble clutch pack).

We spent about 40 minutes on a few attempts and then, despite my earlier declaration on this thread that I was no a quitter, I called "UNCLE" and we had the car towed to our friendly neighborhood BMW mechanic (who is going on our Christmas card list this year, he's been so great!). Sam (the BMW mechanic) got the transmission in in less than 10 minutes. Just as good - Sam allowed my son to assist, so he still got some "learning" out of the experience.

When I asked Sam what the problem had been - why we couldn't get it installed, he said there were two things. First, the pilot bearing wasn't installed properly. My son had installed it flush with the blahbidyblah (the circular shiny disc thing that I had to pay $55 to have resurfaced) when it should have been set in by some margin. Second, Sam said that you really needed to install the transmission at a 45 degree angle for best results. 45 degrees sounded like a much greater angle than the engine itself would tilt, but I wasn't there to see it when he did it. Sam also has a professional auto shop and could work while standing up.

Whatever - the transmission is now in. Sam told my son that he has done over 150 of these auto to manual conversions and it generally takes him a day to do the whole thing. That impressed my son. "Practice,", I told him. Sam also told my son to bring the drive shaft down and they would install that, so he did and they did, and tomorrow morning, Sam and my son will install the exhaust system so my son can drive the car home and finish up the details. I have no idea how much Sam is going to charge me for this, but frankly, the value in having Sam give my son some "lessons" and of being able to pull my own car in the garage again, I'm sure it will be well worth it.

I didn't really intend to write a book on this - sorry if I've bored you. Hopefully the details about the depth of the pilot bearing and angle of attachment might help the next mom who googles "why can't we get the Gutrag 260 transmission in!!".

Thanks for all of your help.

Melissa

 

Glad to hear you got it done! :thumbup:
That shiny thing was probably the flywheel. it was definitely worth going used and resurfacing instead of buying new. And yes, the pilot bearing has to be ALL the way in.

 

Small things that make a BIG difference