What differential fluid do you use in your E39?

bluebee · Jun 6, 2010

What differential fluid do you use in your E39? (Brand? Weight? Synthetic or mineral?, Where do you get it? API?, SAE?)
What differential do you have? How often do you replace it? How much fluid do you use?
I'm trying to fill out a single-page chart of the dozen fluids used in the E39 but I'm all confused since the differential is not covered in the Bentleys.

Some E39s are limited slip while most are not; yet the Bentleys make no distinction; yet Castrol does (see below).
The Bentleys say it's a lifetime oil while Castrol says BWM recommends bi-annual replacement.
The Bentleys don't say the SAE viscosity nor the API quality classification yet the Castrol site provides multiple SAE viscosities in the API GL-5 hypoid gear oil category.

Here's my latest summary for the E39 (as always, please correct as needed):
- Differential (conventional, i.e., non-limited-slip E39s): The Bentleys specify "BMW SAF-XO synthetic final drive gear oil" which doesn't exist (it's Castrol). The Bentleys don't specify the weight (it's SAE 75W-90); and the Bentleys don't specify the quality (it's API GL-5 hypoid gear oil). Given that, suitable replacements are Amsoil Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid (MTF) API 75W90,Mobil1, Royal Purple Max-Gear, & Redline SAE 75W90 API GL-5 synthetic gear oils. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell which of the three (3) different differentials you have w/o looking at the numbers molded into the metal. Bentley page 020-11 & 020-26 & 331-6. [Volume: Type G=1.7 quarts, Type 188 Compact=1.1 quarts, Type 220/215 Compact=1.5 quarts.] Replacement Interval: Lifetime fluid (but most recommend replacing differential fluid at the same time you replace transmission fluid, which is about 5 years or roughly 60K miles).
- Differential (limited-slip E39s, such as the M5): BMW SAF-XJ API GL-5 SAE 75W-140 synthetic hypoid final-drive gear oil (aka Castrol SAF-XJ). This requirement is not listed in the Bentley manual; it is gleaned from the Castrol literature and from what is stated about the M5 in this thread below (please correct if necessary). Replacement Interval: Lifetime fluid (but most recommend replacing differential fluid at the same time you replace transmission fluid, which is about 5 years or roughly 60K miles).

CONFUSING REFERENCES:
- Castrol marketing PDF
- For the people who use OEM manual trans fluid
- Recommendations closest to Castrol SAF-XO 75w-90?
- Transmission Fluid Castrol SAF-X0
- Castrol SAF-XO 75w-90 Synthetic Final Drive Lubricant
- Final Drive Viscosity?
- Pelican BMW 3-series limited slip differential swap

Graham E39 528i · Jun 6, 2010

Mobil 1 75W-90

bluebee · Jun 6, 2010

Graham E39 528i said:
Mobil 1 ATF

Wow. I'd be leery (without more information) using an ATF rather than a final-drive synthetic hypoid gear oil (maybe they are the same thing????).

Also, you didn't say which Mobil1 thickness and quality rating you used.

This article says Mobil1 is a SAE 75w-90 API GL-5 lube ... but some BMW specs intimate the SAF-XO is SAE 80w-90 API GL-5 lube ... yet Castrol specs say it's SAE 75w-90 API GL-5.

Do you know for sure what the Mobil1 SAE viscosity & API quality specs are?

This is so confusing because the Bentleys don't list the API quality nor the SAE viscosity and the references on the net are all over the map on those and their replacements.

POof540i · Jun 6, 2010

Royal Purple Max-Gear 75W90

Beau6183 · Jun 6, 2010

:thumbup:

edjack · Jun 6, 2010

Been using RedLine 75W90 in all my cars: 2 BMWs, a Benzo 450SL, Subie Outback. It even smoothed out the LSD on the E12.

BTW, my local dealer used to sell the BMW diff lube by the liter; bring your own clean plastic jug: p/n 83 22 1 467 993.

540 M-Sport · Jun 6, 2010

Redline specifically recommends their synthetic 75w-90 gear oil for most BMW differentials. That is what I have used, and changed it every 30k. Which works out to between every 2 to 3 years.
Differential issues seem very uncommon, and the great majority of owners never change the fluid. I would suspect my 30k interval is complete overkill, but since it is so easy and cheap, and I am doing the ATF anyway, I figure no harm no foul. It takes a bit over 1 quart, and you need two aluminum crush washers from the dealer for the fill and drain plugs.

Graham E39 528i · Jun 6, 2010

The final drive oil is supposed to be lifetime fill. I took a photo of the Mobil 1 and the old BMW oil.

Voila:

So, the question you have to ask yourself is:

"Do I want balsamic vinegar in my diff or a nice California chardonnay?"

Hooray! · Jun 13, 2010

I just did mine not more then twenty minutes ago! RedLine 75W90, also put RedLine 5W30 in the engine... next is Valvoline MaxLife ATF (3x method). Seemed like when the dust settled, nobody had anything bad to say about RedLine gear oil or engine oil (bobtheoilguy.com) where Royal Purple, Mobil 1 and the other "finalists" all had negatives against them backed up by oil analysis reports...

I cracked the fill first and confirmed a few drops came out to validate my "levelness". I noticed that depending on which part of the body you put the level on gives you different readings... finally the "rail" just beyond where the body ends was "level".

Mine did not look like the dark vinegar above, more like maple syrup deep brown... I did notice it had a not so sweet gear oil smell to it. Comparing, the RedLine was roses. Took it out for a spin afterwards, no difference (not that I expected any), but nice to know another fluid is checked off, left to go: ATF, coolant, brakes (done power steering, engine, diff)... I guess I'm halfway home.

NOTES:

1. it took more like 1.5 qt, I did pump .25 +/- qt of fresh oil in and let it drain out the drain before I capped it.
2. I went with another post stating 52 ft-lb of torque (too lazy to look it up) which seemed tight when I was doing it... is that the correct torque.
3. Each plug has a crush washer, the BMW dealer only sold me one, I'll check what the PN is and post, I put new crush washers on everything... cheap insurance so was bummed I only had one.

cn90 · Jun 6, 2010

Chardonay on the left glass and bordeaux on the right side....hehe (j/k)

yadayadayada · Jun 13, 2010

75W-140W BMW Differential Oil .I get from my dealer in Quart containers that I bring myself.A back door kind of deal that the parts guys allow.I have the M5 3.15 LSD.
In my older 3.38 open diff I put the Redline 75W-90.

bmw_n00b13 · Jun 13, 2010

M5s have LSDs, others don't. Easy to find out—disable DSC and give-'er on wet pavement (dry with 540 and look for the black stripe). 1 wheel spinning = open diff.

Jase007 · Jun 14, 2010

Redline in my E39 and E30s.

One of my E30 325iX has had redline in the front differential, manual transmission, transfer case and rear differential ... and has traveled about 200,000 miles that way (over 16 years) with ZERO problems.

I don't need any better proof that the stuff works.

99-540i · Jun 15, 2010

I was just wondering, is this the Redline differential oil you guys are speaking of?
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=133&pcid=4
Did anybody have to use the limited slip friction modifier on their 540i 6-speed rear differential?

I am not trying to throw this thread off topic, but what do you guys recommend I use from Redline when it comes to the 6-speed manual transmission? Does this gearbox have hypoid gears? The Redline website mentions that the MTL and MT-90 manual transmissions oils are not for use with hypoid gears. I found this oil on the Redline website to use in the 6-speed manual transmission.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=47&pcid=7
What do you guys think?

Thank you for any help, it is greatly appreciated.
Tony

yadayadayada · Jun 16, 2010

I would not put LSD modifiers in a NON LSD Diff.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=133&pcid=4 This is what I used in the Open Diff.

oldskoolbmw · Jun 15, 2010

I and may racers have had good luck with the more cost effective valvoline synthetic HD gear oil. 75-90w

I like it as it's available at autozones/wallmarts.. no special order like the amsoil/redline/royal purple.

Jared@EAC · Jun 16, 2010

Amsoil 75w-90

Hooray! · Jun 17, 2010

Never a bad word about RedLine, bought mine at Bavarian Auto, two qts, no issues... I used to use Royal Purple in my Dodge Hemi engine / diffs, you can buy at PepBoys but when you go on the bobtheoilguy.com web site with people as freaky about oil as we are about e39's, really interesting reading the oil reports... RedLine comes out on top most of the time, beats Amsoil, Royal Purple, etc... having said that, all of these oils are at such a high level, cant go really wrong I suspect, except for the ATF which ONLY ESSO / LT or Valvoline... the RedLine and RP techs "off the record" even said it may be too slippery for a ZF with over 75k, Valvoline says that is their market.

Jared@EAC · Jun 17, 2010

If you spend time on BITOG you'll see Royal Purple consistently turn in bad UOAs. It's a dirty oil that shears quickly. I tried it in my tranny but it didn't last 20k miles before it needed drained. I've put MTF in several customer's cars and they've all been very happy.

Redline isn't real popular on there either. You'll see the same guys over and over touting it, but not many. Search some of the ranking threads and you'll find near the bottom just above Royal Purple.

There are some surprising favorites at the top. It's worth looking for and reading. You don't always have to spend top dollar to get a good oil.

540 M-Sport · Jun 17, 2010

Good to know Jared, please post the threads if you ever come across them. Thanks!!

I am over at BITOG every so often, but mostly reading the motor oil sections.

99-540i · Jun 17, 2010

I have been doing a lot of reading and research. Some of it via this thread, thanks to you guys.

I have narrowed it down to these two oils to use in my 6-speed 540i:

6-Speed Transmission Oil:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=ATFD4

Rear Differential Oil:
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=75/90

From what I can gather, you need approximately two quarts of oil in the transmission and approximately two quarts in the differential. I thought I should share this information with all of you, in hopes that it might help somebody in the future.

Thanks again,
Tony

Jared@EAC · Jun 17, 2010

You won't be happy with that ATF in your tranny. An MTF formulized for synchromesh transmissions works much better.

paferri · Jun 17, 2010

well I performed my tranny fluid and filter change last night along with the differential and engine oil change. Although me and an Indy tech took about 4 hours, It can be done in less time.

I have the A4S-270/310R transmission, so I knew it would be a Dexron III oil I had to use (had a green sticker by the way that specifically said use only Dexron III)

I went out earlier in the day and purchased 6 quarts of Mobile 1 synthetic ATF, and 2 Quarts of Royal Purple gearmax GL-5.
When I pulled up to my Indy and he took a look at the Mobil 1 ATF and said, I would not put that in the tranny, so we agreed on regular BMW OEM Fuchs Transmission fluid. In his words, if pink stuff comes out, put pink stuff back in...you do not want to mix it....did not see anything that said synthetic on the 5 gallon jugs, only ultra performance and from Germany. My tech did say it was synthetic....

I can understand his logic although I did want to try a full synthetic like Mobil 1, we went with what he recommended and returned the Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.

I was surprised to see that the tranny fluid that came out on 80K was still quite clean. We cleaned up the pan, not much on the magnet at all, had to grind and dremel the gasket material off the tranny and pan, then put back roughly 6 quarts that came out and refilled with a pump. I do not think I am going to drain again until at least 30K where I may go with a mobile 1 or higher end synthetic then

The Royal purple gearmax 75w 90 he highly touted for the differential and claimed to use it in his 540 as well although it was the synchromax royal purple for his 6 speed.....can't believe how thick this stuff is compared to what came out.

So my prognosis the day after is pretty good and if for anything else, piece of mind that it was changed with a new filter. although I had no indication of tranny issues, It definately seems smoother shifting gears, especially from 1-2 and no more slight clunk from park to 1.

Besides me getting my wheels refinished again after 1 year under warranty (clear coat is coming off on all rims in patches) this Monday and Tuesday, I think I am done for the year monetarily, and in taking time off.

I am only left with emissions in which I will tackle next spring with a new cat back system and 02 sensors...After purchasing the car for 10,500 2 years ago, I have now put about 8K into her....but I feel it was well worth it as the car feels and looks like a new car.

ProRail · Jun 18, 2010

bluebee said:
What differential fluid do you use in your E39?
(Brand? Weight? Synthetic or mineral?, Where do you get it? API?, SAE?)

I'm trying to fill out a single-page chart of the dozen fluids used in the E39 but I'm all confused since the differential is not covered in the Bentleys.

Also Castrol says one thing while the Bentleys say another - and both leave out the details ... may I ask for more information about what YOU use in your E39.

Confusion I have is that some E39s are limited slip while most are not yet the Bentleys make no distinction yet Castrol does (see below).

Also the Bentleys say it's a lifetime oil while Castrol says BWM recommends bi-annual replacement. Someone is not telling the truth here but I don't know who.

Also, the Bentley doesn't say the SAE viscosity nor does it say the API quality classification yet the Castrol site provides multiple SAE viscosities in the API GL-5 hypoid gear oil category - so again the weight and quality to shoot for is confusing if we try to find a comparable hypoid gear oil.

This whole differential fluid thing is so confusing, I figured I'd open a thread to settle out all the confusion once and for all. Please tell me what you know about differential oil for the E39 (including the limited-slip differentials) so we can collectively make some sense out of this).

CONFUSING REFERENCES:
- Castrol marketing PDF
- For the people who use OEM manual trans fluid
- Recommendations closest to Castrol SAF-XO 75w-90?
- Transmission Fluid Castrol SAF-X0
- Castrol SAF-XO 75w-90 Synthetic Final Drive Lubricant
- Final Drive Viscosity?
- Pelican BMW 3-series limited slip differential swap

Bi-annual replacement? Never heard of that. I think they replaced mine when they did some tranny work at 135K (about 8 years).

Jason5driver · Jun 18, 2010

Using Amsoil Severe Gear 75w-90.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/svg.aspx
Awesome stuff IMO!

oldskoolbmw · Jun 18, 2010

I just got done changing my engine oil with

now the car just purs. differential fluid is on the way

paferri · Jun 19, 2010

I went with Royal Purple Gearmax 75w-90 GL-5 differential fluid. Much thicker than what came out. I have only heard good things from people that have used it and everything definately feels smoother after doing all this.

I cannot believe the bashing Royal Purple gets on that BITOG site, but the bashing is primarily for the engine oil and trans oil and I have not used it for either of those applications, so I cannot comment on that. As far as the differential fluid, I have only heard, and experienced positives, as it seems to be one of the top choices for many in differential fluids with much more positive feedback and very little negative feedback, not only from blogs, but from real world experience for many years.

Jason5driver · Jun 19, 2010

IMO, there is a difference between people's experiences with a differential fluid than the facts listed on paper (oil analysis)...

Hooray! · Jun 20, 2010

IMO do the rear diff with the ATF at 50/60,000 miles. You are correct, it could likely go more miles but why bother when you are talking about $12 worth of gear oil and 20 minutes under the car.

gtxragtop · Aug 29, 2010

ATF in the rear diff? Why would you do that? ATF does not have any high pressure additives which are required for hypoid gears.

01BMW525i · Aug 29, 2010

I have read the thread and I am scrambled. Just need to clear somethings up.

Q: What type of fluid is the best for the A/T?

Q: What type of fluid is the best for Diff?

Q: What is the bolt sizes for both?

bluebee · Aug 30, 2010

01BMW525i said:
Q: What type of fluid is the best for the A/T?

You need to state what transmission you have. It would also be helpful to know also what color the sticker on that transmission is.

Once we know that, we just apply the formula to tell you which fluid to use.

- Manual transmission (yellow sticker): BMW PN: 83.22.9.408.942 or MTF-LT-1 (manual transmission fluid, lifetime, I'm not sure what the "1" means) Bentley page 020-10 & 020-30. [Volume: See chart below.] Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 230-6). A user-recommended fluid is "Royal Purple Synchromax 1512 manual transmission fluid" & Redline MT-90; the user-recommended replacement interval is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles.
- Manual transmission (orange sticker): The Bentleys, on page 200-4, simply say "ATF" (aka ATF-Oil). Nothing more. Note: This orange sticker is not mentioned in the Bentleys page 020-10 & 020-30 but is noted on page 200-4. Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 230-6); but the user-recommended replacement interval is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles.
- Automatic transmission (green sticker): BMW PN: 83.22.0.024.359 or Texaco ETL 8072B or Shell LA2634 (this is extremely confusing, not only because these are cryptic "types" but also because the Bentleys list different fluids and volumes on page 020-10, 240-6, & 240-8). [Volume w/o torque converter/with torque converter, see chart below]. Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 240-6); but the user-recommended replacement interval for the fluid and filter is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles. Apparently Pentosin is the OEM oil but FEBI also works (ATF Auto Transmission Fluid equivalent to ESSO LT 71141). Note: Mixing ATF types will cause transmission failure (Bentley 240-6). My 2002 525i with the ZF 5HP19 (aka A5S 325Z) transmission (6.2 liters/8.9 liters or 6.6 quarts/9.4 quarts) has this green sticker.
- Automatic transmission (black sticker): Dexron III ATF (realistically Dexron VI ATF) BMW PN: 83.22.9.407.807 or Exxon LT-71141 which seems to also be called Esso LT-71141) (all this is extremely confusing, not only because these are cryptic "types", but also because the Bentleys list different fluids on page 020-10 than on page 240-6). [Volume w/o torque converter/with torque converter, see chart below]. Replacement Interval: Lifetime oil (Bentley 240-6); but the user-recommended replacement interval for the fluid and filter is roughly 5 years or about 60K miles. Note: Mixing ATF types will cause transmission failure (Bentley 240-6). Some users suggest Mobil1 Synthetic ATF.

See this thread for complete details on fluids, torques, volumes, locations, etc and to find which transmission is in your model E39:
Manual transmissions:
BMW 525i 2001-2002 M52TU, M54: Getrag S5D 250G, 1.2 quarts (1.1 liters)
BMW 540i 1997-2002 M62: ZF/Getrag S6S 420G, 2.0 quarts (1.9 liters)
BMW 528i 1997-2002 M52: ZF S5D 320Z, 1.4 quarts (1.3 liters)
BMW 530i 2001-2002 M54: ZF S5D 320Z, 1.4 quarts (1.3 liters)

Automatic transmissions:
GM THM-R1 (A4S 270R), 9.3 quarts/8.2 quarts (8.8 liters/7.8 liters)
BMW 528i to 9/1999 M52: GM THM-R1 (A4S 310R), 9.3 quarts/8.2 quarts (8.8 liters/7.8 liters)
BMW 528i from 9/1999: GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 360R), 9.5 quarts/8.5 quarts (9.0 liters/8.0 liters)
BMW 525i to 3/2001 M54: GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R), 9.5 quarts/8.5 quarts (9.0 liters/8.0 liters)
BMW X5 GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R), 10.1 quarts/9.1 quarts (9.6 liters/8.6 liters)
BMW 530i to 3/2001 M54: GM 5L40-E/GM5 (A5S 390R), ? quarts/? quarts (? liters/?liters)
ZF 4HP22, 7.9 quarts/3.2 quarts (7.5 liters/3.0 liters)
ZF 4HP24, 8.6 quarts/3.3 quarts (8.1 liters/3.1 liters)
ZF 5HP18 (A5S 310Z), 8.2 quarts/3.4 quarts (7.8 liters/3.2 liters)
BMW 525i from 3/2001 (2.5L M54): ZF 5HP19 (A5S 325Z), 9.4 quarts/6.6 quarts (8.9 liters/6.2 liters)
BMW 530i from 3/2001 (3.0L M54): ZF 5HP19 (A5S 325Z), 9.2 quarts/6.5 quarts (8.7 liters/6.1 liters)
ZF 5HP24 (A5S 440Z) for 4.4 L, 9.5 quarts/5.7 quarts (9.0 liters/5.35 liters)
BMW 540i from 1/1997 M62 TU: ZF 5HP24 (A5S 440Z) for 4.6 L, 10.5 quarts/5.7 quarts (9.9 liters/5.35 liters)
BMW 540i to 1/1997 M62: ZF 5HP30 (A5S 560Z) 13.8 quarts/5.8 quarts (13.1 liters/5.5 liters)

01BMW525i said:
Q: What type of fluid is the best for Diff?

Similar question for the differential; which one do you have?
Once we know that, we just apply the forumula.

- Differential (conventional, i.e., non-limited-slip E39s): The Bentleys specify "BMW SAF-XO synthetic final drive gear oil" which doesn't exist (it's Castrol). The Bentleys don't specify the weight (it's SAE 75W-90); and the Bentleys don't specify the quality (it's API GL-5 hypoid gear oil). Given that, suitable replacements are Amsoil Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid (MTF) API 75W90,Mobil1, Royal Purple Max-Gear, & Redline SAE 75W90 API GL-5 synthetic gear oils. Unfortunately, there's no way to tell which of the three (3) different differentials you have w/o looking at the numbers molded into the metal. Bentley page 020-11 & 020-26 & 331-6. [Volume: Type G=1.7 quarts, Type 188 Compact=1.1 quarts, Type 220/215 Compact=1.5 quarts.] Replacement Interval: Lifetime fluid (but most recommend replacing differential fluid at the same time you replace transmission fluid, which is about 5 years or roughly 60K miles).
- Differential (limited-slip E39s, such as the M5): BMW SAF-XJ API GL-5 SAE 75W-140 synthetic hypoid final-drive gear oil (aka Castrol SAF-XJ). This requirement is not listed in the Bentley manual; it is gleaned from the Castrol literature and from what is stated about the M5 in this thread below (please correct if necessary). Replacement Interval: Lifetime fluid (but most recommend replacing differential fluid at the same time you replace transmission fluid, which is about 5 years or roughly 60K miles).

93formula · Aug 29, 2010

i used lubromoly 75w90 full synth

bowtie · Aug 30, 2010

Hooray! · Aug 30, 2010

Back to the OP, I just put RedLine 75W90 gear oil in, highly recommended by all the research I did... sold by Bavarian Auto among others. Regarding ATF, for a ZF 5HP19 again after alot of research and talking with a few ZF "real" repair facilities (ie torn down hudreds of ZFs), Valvoline MaxLife ($4@qt!) turns out to be the #2 to ESSO/LifeTime and only because ESSO is brown, which is different and MaxLife is red, looks like all ATF. Theory goes from the ZF guys, that down the road a mechanic that finds brown ATF might ask a question or two vs. one that sees red and puts in regular Dextron ATF (not good for a ZF). They went on to say that the MaxLife formula with friction additives and seal conditioners built for over 75,000 mile tranny's seems to work well. For me, hearing that and the fact that at $4@qt (vs. $20@at) I can change the ATF every 30k without blinking.

AK_5eries · Oct 18, 2012

Wow, really? Good to hear. I currently have the Valvoline ATF but was wanting to try the fully synthetic Pentosin ATF (OEM). It was reverse recommended for older European trannys (including our E39 ZF) as being a good replacement and fully compatible instead of the semi synthetic Esso.

What differential fluid do you use in your E39?

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