Replaced oil pan gasket

Mudbone · Apr 4, 2011

I did it! I changed my oil pan gasket w/o dropping the sub-frame or lifting the motor. I had to cut the gasket to get it in.
I ran the motor for a little while yesterday. NO LEAKS. But time will tell!!
I’ll keep you posted whether it leaks or not.
It was not that difficult of a job. It would be much easier on a lift instead of rolling around underneath on a creeper with only a couple of inches of head room.
I spend most of the time studying where to cut the gasket in order to (1) be able to get it in and (2) have it in a position where it was accessible enough to get a good dose of gasket maker around the cut lines.

bobdmac · Apr 4, 2011

Nice going. This could save a lot of people (I6 owners--I get to gloat for a moment) a lot of time and pain. Where did you cut it?

cn90 · Apr 4, 2011

Hey Mudbone,

So it was worth the $28 experiment, correct LOL?
I had a STRONG conviction that this would work and this was exactly what I suggested to Mudbone to do.
And Mudbone proved it.
Did you have to move the Steering Rack or not?
Any pictures?

------

bobdmac,

The issue of where to cut the oil pan gasket was discussed in this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=527228

This was the location that I suggested "Mudbone" to cut:

edjack · Apr 4, 2011

The only downside is that you were unable to inspect the bottom of the pan for dead mice, etc.

bobdmac · Apr 4, 2011

I remember that discussion, cn90, and as I recall, you originally suggested cutting in a different location, but Mudbone didn't say whether he followed your above suggestion.

bluebee · Apr 4, 2011

Here is the thread that precipitated this wonderful ground-breaking teamwork (cn90 & Mudbone) solution:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > Who has replaced their oil pan gasket?

Since this is such a quantum leap in our knowledge, I'm adding this link to the bestlinks because it's the first proof of concept (although ... we really need some pictures of the gasket cut, the gasket with the sealant on it, and the method of 'wriggling' the gasket into place).

- How to identify & fix an oil filter housing (OFH) leak (1) (2) (3) (4) & how to identify an oil pan gasket leak (1) & how to remove & replace the E39 V8 oil pan gasket (1) (2) or the E39 I6 oil pan gasket (1) (2) & hints how to replace the rigid metalized I6 oil pan gasket without removing the subframe (1) (2) & if you do remove the subframe, how to build or buy your own hoist & engine-support tools (1) (2) & how to fix broken or stripped oil drain pan plug bolt threads (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18)

cn90 · Apr 5, 2011

Mudbone,

Thanks for the update. I can assure you that you will have no leak for the next 80K miles. This is because my Volvo oil pan gasket uses what Volvo called "liquid gasket" (basically similar to RTV gasket), and at 110K no leak at all.

I think your fix is a permanent fix.

BTW, let's say you already cut the gasket and know what to do, how long did it take you?
1h or 2h?

Mudbone · Apr 5, 2011

I believe I could do it again in 2 hrs including raising and lower the car and cleaning up.
If I had access to a lift, I could do it in an hour (not including the note below).

However, if I were to do it again, I would drain the oil the night before and let it continue to drain through the night. That "little bit" of oil that just kept creeping onto the gasket surface was aggravating.

cn90 · Apr 5, 2011

Build a wood ramp (using 2x10 lumber, about $10 in cost at Home Depot etc.), as in this Oil Change thread, you will save so much time from jacking up and down etc.
Simply drive it up and down the wood ramps!

DIY: E39 Changing engine oil made simple (how to do it in 30 minutes and not crying!)
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=459141

Mudbone · Apr 5, 2011

I've done that. That is not high enough to roll around underneath on a creeper. I had my jack stands at their highest level and would love to have had another foot!!

cn90 · Apr 5, 2011

Ahhh,

I drive the car up the ramp and slide myself on top of a cardboard (the UPS shipping box stuff) on concrete floor.
The creeper itself adds height to it (probably another 5-6 inches in height) and that is why I don't use it.
This is why I slide under on top of a cardboard LOL.

bluebee · Apr 5, 2011

I'm curious why you cut the gasket in two places.

The uninitiated (me) would think that one cut would be sufficient to wiggle it around. I guess the reason is that the metal-reinforced gasket, even cut once, is still too rigid and too large to get around the obstacles.

Mudbone: Having done it, do you still recommend TWO cuts? Why?

Also, in this thread, there's no mention of what 'gasket sealer' mudbone used (cn90 discussed "liquid gasket"). Mudbone: For future reference, I'm trying to anticipate the questions while the answers are still fresh in your head.

Mudbone: What gasket sealer do you recommend, if any?

Mudbone · Apr 5, 2011

bluebee said:
I'm curious why you cut the gasket in two places.

The uninitiated (me) would think that one cut would be sufficient to wiggle it around. I guess the reason is that the metal-reinforced gasket, even cut once, is still too rigid and too large to get around the obstacles.

Mudbone: Having done it, do you still recommend TWO cuts? Why?

Also, in this thread, there's no mention of what 'gasket sealer' mudbone used (cn90 discussed "liquid gasket"). Mudbone: For future reference, I'm trying to anticipate the questions while the answers are still fresh in your head.

Mudbone: What gasket sealer do you recommend, if any?

h

Bluebee your assumption is correct. I could not get the new gasket in place with one cut. It is one of those "you had to be there" moments. The locations were selected by observation.

Yes I believe two cuts are required (see above).

As far as recommending a gasket sealer goes, I'm going to wait to see if it leaks before I recommend anything. But for the record I used "Permatex Ultra Copper".

559eddie559 · Apr 5, 2011

the tasate of victory never tasted so good right mudbone?!

cn90 · Apr 5, 2011

Many people may not realize the significance of this thread.

1. To do it the "kosher" way, it is 9-10h of pain:
- Support engine through the hook (engine hoist needed = crane or wood support etc.).
It is difficult to find a hoist, you can rent it but it costs money.
- Remove subframe (this is a BIG job because a lot of nuts and bolts need to be removed).
- After the oil pan gasket is done, re-install the subframe.
- A wheel alignment is strongly recommended = more money

2. Doing it this way (Mudbone's way = cutting the gasket in 2 places and use RTV sealant) saves tons of time and money.
It may not sound "kosher" but it works great.

I have every confidence this will hold up very very well with time.

So Mudbone, if we don't hear from you for the 10 years, we know it is good news.
No news = good news LOL.

PS: That "Permatex Ultra Copper" is very good stuff, it will hold up at least 8-10 years, been there done that.

rrtec · Apr 5, 2011

If you are going to cut the gasket anyway is there really any benefit to the gasket at all? Or would one be just as well served to use an oil resistant gasket maker for the entire bead?

bobdmac · Apr 5, 2011

Trying to create a consistent bead around the entire perimeter could get messy, I think. With this method, you only need to apply a couple of dabs.

cn90 · Apr 6, 2011

Mudbone,

You will be happy to see this thread, the RTV sealant trick holds up past the 150K in this E30:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5975257&postcount=5

..."m123":...I did the same thing my old e30 just used sealant in the cut b4 bolting it down and it worked fine drove it another 150k never leaked again; I made just 1 cut in the side middle area between 2 bolt holes.

BMR01530 · Apr 6, 2011

wow.. I was just under the car last night for another issue and was looking at this problem. This is fantastic..
- Job = $28
- value = priceless

This is the true value of the internet and forums...

Route 66 · Apr 6, 2011

Good info Thanks for sharing.

194449 · Apr 6, 2011

Is it still a PITA cleaning old seal off the mating surfaces?

Mudbone · Apr 7, 2011

It actually was not. I was very concerned about that. I figured that the rubber portion of the gasket had failed and that is why I was leaking. With that said, it made sense to me that the rubber would be stuck and or separated from the metal portion of the gasket. Neither was true. The rubber portion of the gasket was still pliable and intact.

Like I mentioned in thread #9, if I were going to do it again, I would drain the oil the night before and let it drain through the night and start on the job the next morning. It was very aggravating to have a little bit of oil continually dripping/running on to the gasket interface surfaces.

wdgiles · Apr 7, 2011

So for what I spent on the drip pan at wally world I could have fixed my problem permanently? Sheesh. Now Im off to partsweb to order a gasket and the hylomar sealant. Sounds like a good investment of time to finally have a drip free garage floor

BMR01530 · Apr 7, 2011

Not being too familar with this.. why is a cut needed?

Could the gasket as a whole be slide in on a piece of construction paper and then have the paper pulled out from under it, leaving the gasket in place?

540nj · Apr 7, 2011

The entire purpose of this thread is to explain how to put the gasket on without moving everything out of the way. Did you start from the beginning?

dave
03 540i6

194449 · Apr 7, 2011

Mudbone, thanks for those details.

BMR01530, my bet is, internal engine parts hanging down below pan level block straight insertion of the gasket in one piece.

I'd be curious to know how much room the pan has to move around after being unbolted. If it drops enough to allow cleaning off the old seal material from the mating surfaces, how much space are we talking about here? Can the pan be tilted front/back or sideways at all?

Reading the TIS procedure on this, they say raise the engine 5 mm, approx. That's 1/5th of an inch! Would it not be possible to jack it from the pan itself and put a couple shims under the motor mounts?

TIS procedure also mentions applying "approx 3 mm wide, 2 mm high coat of Drei Bond 1209 sealing agent to the area around the seams." Does Drei mean Three? As in Three Bond 1209?

bluebee · Apr 8, 2011

pleiades said:
Reading the TIS procedure on this

For some reason, I never was good at locating the right TIS at the right time. Can you post a PDF of that TIS procedure?

pleiades said:
TIS procedure also mentions applying "approx 3 mm wide, 2 mm high coat of Drei Bond 1290 sealing agent

I'm confused. Previous (flawed?) research (BMW spec sheet) came up with "Hylomar" sealant. However, the TIS lists Drei Bond 1209 which is not listed in this BMW list of sealants (pdf) (jpg).

But, this Drei Bond 1209 Silikone stuff is very highly recommended in my cursory search just now:

Drei Bond 1209 is almost clear, and an anaerobic sealer (doesn't harden in the absence of air), so it stays pliable and rarely do I have to re-seal anything

That cursory search nets interesting BMW-related DIYs enthusiastically advocating its use:
- Removing and installing oil pan (M52 / S52 / M52TU / M54)
- Oil Pan Seal
- Cylinder Head Cover / Valve Cover / Camshaft Cover Gaskets
- etc.

BTW, at 2 mm high, that's a lot more Drei Bond 1209 Silicone sealant than a sparing 'dab' or 'gob', isn't it?

BMR01530 · Apr 7, 2011

540 nj -

I read the whole thing.. does it say why you have to cut it?

If it slips in from each end, seems the whole gasket could slide in??? Just seems that if each of these halves can be slide in, then why not the whole...

Maybe the tubes in the pan feeding the sump pump, create an obstacle. that would be a reason to have to split it.

cn90 · Apr 7, 2011

BMR01530 said:
...Maybe the tubes in the pan feeding the sump pump, create an obstacle. that would be a reason to have to split it.

BMR01530,

That was precisely the issue, the oil pump's pickup tube is in the way, making it very very difficult to slide the oil pan gasket in 1 piece.

However, if you search the internet, you will see that some people successfully slide the gasket in as 1 piece with great difficulty (because the gasket has a metal component to it).

As already mentioned above, the metal part of the gasket is there to limit how much the rubber is squeezed when torquing the oil pan bolts.

cn90 · Apr 8, 2011

I do NOT have an E46 but reading the E46 forums, these guys are crying over the same Oil Pan Gasket Job LOL!!!

If someone here has an account in E46 forum, please let them know this "cutting gasket" trick!!!

Here are the threads that these guys are crying over:

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184018

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=820305

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457789

genuity · Apr 8, 2011

cn90 said:
Here are the threads that these guys are crying over:

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=184018

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=820305

http://www.e46fanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=457789

^HA! I'm in two of those threads.

I'm about to go in for a second time to check out the oil pump nut and wire I put in about 7k prior, but also doing a suspension overhaul with some other stuff. First link, post #17, has quite a nice pic

:beerchug:

Jimmys 530i · Apr 8, 2011

Nice. I will try this next time I have to change it. I usually struggle with it and do it the kosher way. I have cut the gasket though on an older diesel truck that required the cab to removed just so you could change the gasket.

Mrbeemer525 · Apr 9, 2011

Very cool! I think I may want to try this method. A little shy though, maybe I should wait until a few more of you more experienced people have had success and or more pics etc.
Awesome idea, great job! How's it doing so far now?

cn90 · Apr 9, 2011

Mrbeemer525 said:
...A little shy though, maybe I should wait until a few more of you more experienced people have had success and or more pics etc...

This VERY THREAD by m123 said he did this trick (cutting the gasket then add RTV sealant) in his E30 and it was still good after 150K miles:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5975257&postcount=5

So if you need to do yours, go ahead, don't be fearful.
You will be added to the Hall of Fame LOL!
What do you have to lose? Nothing.

Jared@EAC · Apr 27, 2011

What did you cut it with?

As a general statement, everyone please remember that any sealant used must go somewhere. Too much in the wrong place can mean it will be squeezed into your engine. It can harden in oil passages or chunks may be circulated until they get stuck in a passage. Sealant is awesome, but use it correctly.

I'd highly recommend everyone try a product call RedHead gasket shellac. Awesome stuf.

Mudbone · Apr 27, 2011

I used aviation snips and then deburred with a file.

It has been nearly a month now and still NO LEAKS!

cn90 · Apr 27, 2011

As Jared pointed out, using RTV correctly is the key.
- Also let it sit according to the instructions in the RTV package, usually 1-2h of curing before installing things back.

Back to this topic by Mudbone, all people need is a bead of RTV slightly smaller than toothpaste on the toothbrush. If you can achieve a thickness slightly thicker than the gasket itself, you are good to go.

bobdmac · Apr 27, 2011

cn90 said:
Back to this topic by Mudbone, all people need is a bead of RTV slightly smaller than toothpaste on the toothbrush. If you can achieve a thickness slightly thicker than the gasket itself, you are good to go.

For Bluebee's benefit, do you think this would work as a definition of a "dab," or is it closer to a "gob?"

Replaced oil pan gasket

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