Where are the MARKS on the BMW OEM wheels (for proper tire mounting procedures)?

bluebee · Feb 9, 2011

In another wheel-vibration thread yesterday, I found out that both the tires and wheels have marks on them showing where best to mount them for "match mounting" (see pdf attached).
- TIRE MATCH MOUNTING & CUSTOM WHEEL HANDLING
- Tire Match Mounting & Custom Wheel Handling

I knew all about the tire marks (whether red, yellow, or green ... but I hadn't known before the colors mean different things) ...

But I didn't know there were wheel marks.

Googling and searching in bimmerfest was difficult because the terms are so generic, e.g., "wheel marks mounting" or "where is the wheel balance mark on BMW E39".

I'm hoping, with this post, that someone, offhand, already knows where the wheel marks are on the most common OEM E39 wheels.

Do you know how to find the wheel marks on the OEM E39 wheels?

doru · Feb 9, 2011

I don't know :dunno: I always thought the valve stem is the minimal radial runout for the wheel? I also did the "Hunter" road force balancing and I watched closely. On the machine that point (valve stem) did match the theory. But these guys also match the wheels on each corner after road force balancing - quite elaborate process, but worth the $$$. I lost the shimmy once I left their shop, and I tried a couple other tire stores prior to that - they all told me the wheels were balanced. The Hunter guys did a "Pharmaceutical" job with the balancing though.

AnotherGeezer · Feb 9, 2011

Bee,

Just because you always seem to come out of the blue (heheh) with this stuff, I went ahead and ripped open the box of one my brand new style 42s and indeed found a tiny black dot on the inside edge of the wheel. Don't know if this is relevant to your discussion and I doubt one remains on a well used wheel, but I did find something.

bluebee · Feb 9, 2011

AnotherGeezer said:
found a tiny black dot on the inside edge of the wheel.

That's likely it.

This is the only picture I have of the INSIDE of my wheels, last I cleaned 'em ...

and before I switched from Jurid/Textar to PBR/Textar (no dusting anymore on the fronts).

Next time I clean my wheels, I'll look for the little "black dot" (reminds me of when this Roman Catholic kid told me we all had a black spot on us somewhere ... but I could never find it as a kid).

Does anyone have a picture of the inside of their OEM wheels?

AnotherGeezer · Feb 9, 2011

I will once the battery in my trusty Coolpix 5200 charges.

sidneyj · Feb 10, 2011

Hunter is good equipment but nothing, nothing beats hi speed balancing. A process where the wheels are balanced on the car. I will take a pic tomorrow or Friday to give you an idea.

franka · Feb 13, 2011

I would like to see this. Did I miss it above, or is it not posted yet?

champaign777 · Feb 12, 2011

check for BBS on backside

calwilly1 · Feb 12, 2011

champaign777 said:
check for BBS on backside
BBS meams OEM

Chromodora wheel which is also a BMW OEM manufacturer.

AnotherGeezer · Feb 12, 2011

My 42's say BBS

repcapale · Feb 12, 2011

On the side. Where did you get that socket for those center caps? I use those wheels as winter wheels and its painful removing the covers. I knew there was an easier way.

bmw_n00b13 · Feb 12, 2011

Comes with the wheels. Not sure if it varies by style...

10	HUB CAP WRENCH		1			36131181948	$4.20
11	SUPPORT F HUB CAP WRENCH		1			36131093549	$7.67

*******> ********>

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DM63&mospid=47585&btnr=36_0182&hg=36&fg=15

loudbmw · Feb 12, 2011

Just a wild guess but I worked in an industrial paint shop and we always complained to the parts designers that we needed holes to hang the parts in the paint booth.

repcapale · Feb 13, 2011

Interesting. I will have to pick one up. Thanks.

BMC530i · Feb 13, 2011

Here you go, brand new 17" OEM BBS style 42 wheel straight from the dealer. The black dot is clearly visible.

bluebee · Feb 13, 2011

BMC530i said:
The black dot is clearly visible

Ah. I see. It's very clear. A circle of paint, on the inner side of the wheel.

Couldn't be simpler a visual indicator. I wonder if it's on my 2002 OEM wheels, after all this time.

Now I have to figure out what to "tell" the tire mounting guy about it. I'll have to read the match mounting procedure again because it was hard enough to get them to mount the tire with the valve across the yellow dot, let alone this inside wheel dot!

bmw_n00b13 · Feb 13, 2011

Matwiz, there's a place about 45 min from me. If I get my tires balanced, it will be & there I'll post back.

franka · Feb 14, 2011

'On the car balancing' is when for when dynamic balancing is not done correctly.

I've ranted on here before and no more, except to say that more than 50% of the guys and shops doing regular, off the car, dynamic machine balancing, don't have their machines calibrated and/or the operators have never been taught correctly.

franka · Feb 14, 2011

Then their is 'force balancing'. Sorta gimmicky too.

MatWiz · Feb 14, 2011

"Sorta" gimmicky. Have you had one done? One of the things it does, is it automatically turn/slide the tire on the rim to match the tire heavy point to the rim light point. It will therefore use the least amount of weights for the final balance. Kinda like matching the dot on the rim to the dots on the tire, but calculating it on its own. (or something like that).

I have done it only once when the tires were brand new. Then I didn't care to pay the extra money for it.

None of the stores in my area heard about on the car balance. Not even big "hi-end" tire shops. It is very difficult to find a tire shop or tech who will know or even care enough to do a good mounting and balancing job. Most to all of them just want to mount the tire, do a sorta ok balance, and send you on your way. They have no pride in their work and they have no understanding that some cars, like the BMW, need the best balance possible because it is so prone to vibrations if the balance is not 100%.

mw

bmw_n00b13 · Feb 14, 2011

My grandfather was a heavy equipment mechanic, he worked with on the car balancing years ago. Says that unless Hunter has picked up their game they're the best off the car but can't match on the car :dunno: Let's get back on topic?

franka · Feb 14, 2011

MatWiz;5846347 It is very difficult to find a tire shop or tech who will know or even care enough to do a good mounting and balancing job. Most to all of them just want to mount the tire said:
So, so true. And such a sad situation.

Quackers · Feb 14, 2011

I used to have my wheels balanced "on the car" every time. The guy sits on a machine and pushes it up to touch your tyre. The machine has a wheel which turns the car's wheel and spins it to quite high revs. At the end of the test the machine tells the guy where to put the weights, just like a regular wheel balancer. It's very accurate. Sadly, nobody here seems to have the machine any more.

With regard to the black dot on wheels, where is the black dot in relation to the valve hole? Oposite? Or does it vary?

bluebee · Sep 26, 2012

Somewhat related is this post today about E39 wheel specs being different than most:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > will e46 rims fit e39?

Solo12 said:
Dennis and Qsilver make some very good points. But if for some reason you do really want to run e46 rims it may be possible. You need to address two things, the hub bores and the offset of the e46 wheels.

Bore: either elarge the 72.56mm e46 wheel bore to 74.1mm (at a machine shop) or use something like spacer adapters.

Offset: Make sure you can get the wheels and tires into e39 spec with spacers

lovemy 98 528i is correct they absolutley make adapters spacers that allow you to run 72.56mm wheels on 74.1mm hubs. H&R make some in 15mm and 20mm. I know Turner and ECS sell them and I am sure there are other sources as well. I think there was another company that used to make them too ARD maybe?

Here is what the H&R adapters look like

Turner
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-86...-5-series.aspx

ECS
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E39-530...eels/Adapters/

Adapters that convert e39 wheels (74.1 mm) to rest of the world bmw spec (72.56mm) also may exist.

Third Option
There is also the option of swapping in e60 wheel bearings/hubs and that will give you the more standard 72.56mm hubs. But in the case of e46 wheels you would still need to run spacers to get them to fit. I don't know much about this and whether it is a good idea or not, but someone did do it and write it up.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...hlight=e60+hub

Here are some references:
- BMW wheel specs (1) & BMW & replica wheel styles (1) (2) (3) (4) & the difference between cast vs forged wheels (1) & where to find the wheel markings for proper match mounting (1) & how to choose the right size wheel spacers (1) (2)

See also:
- What tire changing tools do you need to break the bead on the rim and set the bead back on the wheel when changing tires at home (1) (2) (3) & where are the marks on the wheel and on the tire for proper tire match mounting and wheel balancing to eliminate vibration (1) & what tools do you need to balance wheels at home to eliminate shimmy or vibration at speed (1)

bluebee · Feb 17, 2013

For the crosslinked record, this related thread was opened today:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > How do you PROPERLY mount tires and balance wheels (can it possibly be done as a dIy)

See also:
- One users quest to diagnose uneven tire wear on the inside edge due to excessive and uneven alignment camber & toe (1) (2) & how one user selects a tire (1) & what are the most common bimmerfest tire recommendations (1) & where to buy your tires in the USA (1) & recommended tire pressures (1) & the claimed benefits of nitrogen gas (1) what tire changing tools do you need to break the bead on the rim and set the bead back on the wheel when changing a tire at home (1) (2) (3) & where are the marks on the wheel and on the tire for proper tire match mounting and wheel balancing to eliminate vibration (1) & what tools do you need to balance a tire and rim at home to eliminate shimmy or vibration at speed (1) & how do you properly dispose of your old car tires (1) & where to get bent or damaged wheel rims repaired (1) (2).

4thBMW · Mar 29, 2013

Road force balancing

road force balancing simulated the force of the road on the tire while spinning. if you have wide rims and thin sidewalls, get road-force balanced. The BMW dealer doing an alignment (for the 5th attempt) said it couldn't guarantee no shake on wheels with out it ( for $400!!!!). I had just purchased new rubber and balanced...was in for alignment. Told them to wait, I'd be right over. Drove the car to see if alignment and steering was strait. OK after 6th attempt. Took the car to one of 5 road force balances withing 5 miles of the BMW dealer and for $15/ wheel did RF balancing. They wanted to charge me 400 dollars. Wheel balancing! After not noticing my car was a S227A for the alignment settings. Anyway, everyone has those machines now with all the crazy wide wheels and skinny rubber.

bluebee · Jul 13, 2013

For the record, this post in another thread is apropos:

bluebee said:
Heh heh ... I just helped get MIDAS booted off the TireRack web site for the "recommended installer" program.

At least all the MIDAS shops owned by the large corporation that owned the one I had my tires shipped to are no longer visible when I search the San Jose zip codes on Tire Rack.

Since MIDAS has been booted from TireRack yesterday, I had to call the guy in charge of the recommended-installer program to send me the pricing that was on the Tirerack web site up until yesterday.

Here's what they were telling TireRack they would charge us:
55 series tire = $11.25 mounting + $1.99 valve + $2 disposal + tax

But, they lied. A friend of mine had gone to them just two weeks ago, and I knew that they charged a higher price than they reported on TireRack. So, I, on purpose, told TireRack to send my tires to them and, guess what, they tried to charge me that higher price. Heh heh. They probably shouldn't have!

When I reported it, TireRack said it was the third complaint for them, and their policy is to remove a company if three people complain about them not honoring their pricing agreement with Tire Rack.

So, they booted (at least this) MIDAS from the Recommended Installer program (and all the ones under that large corporation).
Caveat emptor

Anyway, here are the prices. Now I have to find another installer (no big deal) because I also complained that they:
a) Overcharge their customers daily (millions of dollars in overcharges given the number of tires they install)
a) Do not torque the lug bolts properly (they use 100 foot pounds for ALL cars!)
b) Do not pressurize the tires properly (they use the same psi for both axles!)
c) Do not mount the heavy spot properly (they don't follow the dots nor spin the wheels prior to mounting as per this Tire Rack article:
- Match Mounting to Enhance Tire & Wheel Uniformity

See also:
- Where to find the wheel markings on our BMW E39 wheels for proper match mounting (1)

I also wrote to Consumer Reports (customerservice at cr.consumer.org) saying a study of how many tire installers improperly install tires would make a nice exposé!

One question:
Q: While it's clearly WRONG for a tire professional to make all the mistakes above, what safety implications do you think result from millions upon millions of tires and wheels mounted improperly so?

bluebee · Jul 15, 2013

I'm confused - but I have an appointment tomorrow for my tires to be mounted - and - I'm confused where the dots should line up - so I reread the PDF in the first post -
and I read the Tire Rack PDF blow - and - well - I'm still confused!
- http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=17
- http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1304

According to the PDF in the first post of this thread, wheel manufacturers are required to mark the "low spot" and tire manufacturers are required to mark the "high spot" (usually as a red dot).

On the back of the stock 16" BMW (BBS) rims, is this nick painted white, which I presume is the marked "low spot" (which, you may notice, is not at the valve stem):

Yet, on the tires, I see both a red dot and a yellow dot!

RED = high point of radial runout on the tire
YELLOW = light point (with respect to weight balance) on the tire

So, that makes FOUR separate spots, two on the wheel and two on the tire:

Wheel valve stem
Wheel white nick (presumably that's the low spot
Tire red dot (presumably that's the high spot)
Tire yellow dot (presumably that's the light point)

OK. Now what?
Q1: What two spots (of those four) should I tell the tire installer to line up?
Q2: Should they remove all these weights first?

bluebee · Jul 15, 2013

I think I just found a much clearer answer on the Yokohama web site:
http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires_101/tire_care_and_safety/match_mounting/

This seems to be the algorithm from the Yokohama TSB on match mounting:
- http://www.yokohamatire.com/assets/docs/tsb_MatchMounting_12803.pdf

UNIFORMITY METHOD:
Q: Does the wheel have a match-mounting notch?
A: If yes, then match that wheel notch to the red dot on the tire.

WEIGHT METHOD:
Q: Does the wheel have a match-mounting notch?
A: If no, then match the wheel stem hole to the yellow dot on the tire.

So, I'll try to remember that once I'm at the tire shop, with the simple mnemonic of the Gangham Style singer "Mr. Psy" (i.e., metal-to-red, pneumatic stem-to-yellow).

However, the answer to the yes/no question above depends a LOT on whether that white notch in the back of my stock BBS 16 inch wheels actually does correspond to the wheel assembly's point of minimum radial run-out.

EDIT: See also this Bridgestone article: "Why do the dots go where they do?"
- http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/real/magazines/ra_v13_i1/PDF/ra_v13i1%20ask%20doc.pdf

In that PDF, they go further to refine the Mr Psy algorithm, by saying that red has preference over yellow (just like at a stoplight):
Specifically:
a) If there is a match mounting mark on the wheel, match to the red dot.
b) If there is no match mounting mark on the wheel, match the valve stem to the red dot.
c) Only if there is no match mounting mark on the wheel, and, if there is no red dot, then mount the valve stem to the yellow dot.

EDIT: I'm perusing these RMA (Rubber Manufacturers Association) articles for hints on Match Mounting procedures:
http://www.rma.org/tire_care_info/index.cfm
See Chapter 2, page 33 "Match Mounting" in the attached "care and service manual" document from:
http://www.rma.org/tire_care_info/tire_care_manual/index.cfm

This is the Bridgestone algorithm:
1. If you have steel wheels with match mounting marks, and red dots on the tires, mount the match mounting mark to the red dot.
2. If you have steel wheels without match mounting marks, and red dots on the tires, mount the valve stem to the red dot.
3. If you have steel wheels without match mounting dots, and no red dots on the tires, then mount the valve stem to the yellow dot.
4. However, if you have aluminum wheels, and red dots on the tires, then mount the valve stem to the red dot.
5. Likewise, if you have aluminum wheels, and no red dots on the tires, then mount the valve stem to the yellow dot.

EDIT: Notice the Bridgestone explaination says that only steel wheels have match mounting marks!
If that's the case, why does my aluminum wheel have a notch painted wihte on the back?

bluebee · Jul 15, 2013

Here's another description, different still, yet which again implies aluminum wheels don't have low-spot dimples:
http://www.bridgestonetrucktires.com/us_eng/real/magazines/97v1issue2/Doctor.asp
800-847-3272

UNIFORMITY METHOD:
1. If the wheel is steel, and if it has a low-point dimple, match it to the tire high spot red dot:

2. If the wheel is steel, but has no low-point dimple, match the red dot to the valve stem. Note that they assume there is no dimple on aluminum wheels:

WEIGHT METHOD:
3. They say to match the wheel valve stem to the yellow dot, whether or not the wheel is aluminum or steel (and they don't mention the low-point dimple):

So, the two bits of confusion which remain are the two separate questions:
Q1: Does all this only apply to new wheels?
Q2: What do we do if our aluminum wheels actually do have a match-mounting notch?

bluebee · Jul 15, 2013

Sloppiness, incompetence, and fraud at the recommended tire shop!
I filed a formal complaint to Tire Rack.
I had to stop them halfway through, after 2.5 hours of my car on the lift, and now I have four unbalanced (but new) tires, and a bare spare rim with no valve stem.

It was miserable, by any
0. They committed fraud (by claiming a higher Tire Rack price)
1. They pried off the BBS BMW hubcaps with a screwdriver
2. They dropped 1/3 of the the lug bolts on the ground
3. The did not bother to match mount the red to the valve stem
4. They had to ask ME what the torque should be (when I told them to remove the wheels and re-torque them)
5. They had to deflate and then re-inflate the tires (when I told them they didn't even look at the tire placard in the door jamb)
6. They left the old wheel weights on the tire (until I told them to remove them)
7. And, worst of all, I think they damaged two of my wheels

It got so bad, that I told them three times that I wanted my car back, and only after the third time, did they stop. Then they wanted to charge me the full (fraudulent) price, and I insisted they only charge me for the work they did.

In the end, they charged me $8 to mount the four tires with four new stems, no balance, and, they didn't put back the spare tire on the wheel rim nor put the Schrader valve back into the spare tire stem.

And, then they hand me a pretty envelope, with the receipt, where it says "Trust the Midas touch."

Pictures later ... as I only had a crummy cell phone ... and it's hard to get the photos off of it.

bluebee · Jul 11, 2015

Mostly due to my lousy experience at tire shops, I decided to mount my own tires today using the $40 Harbor Freight 69686 manual tire mounting tool.

Gory details are in this thread:
-> E39 (1997 - 2003) > What home tire changing equipment do you recommend for those who have changed a tire?

But, I came here to show a picture of the match mounting marks:
Note two important things in this picture:
1. Treadwear 400, straight-line dry traction AA, temperature (aka speed) A
2. Heavy spots are marked

See details here:
- Where are the marks for proper tire match mounting and wheel balancing to eliminate vibration (1)

Note that this tire is a Fuzion Touring, where Fuzion is a subsidiary of Bridgestone, so, we probably should follow Bridgestone match-mounting advice when Fuzion advice is lacking.
- Fuzion web site
- Fuzion Touring comparison
- Wikipedia tire brand cross reference

Where are the MARKS on the BMW OEM wheels (for proper tire mounting procedures)?

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