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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:04 PM
aioros aioros is offline
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Talking Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+

Today I changed the OEM coolant for the Evans NPG+ waterless coolant
I know there is another thread about this, so I'm not gonna get into details of the pros and cons of it

I will write about the change though:
1- lifted the car
2- removed the splash guard
3- drained coolant from the radiator plug
4- disconnected the hose that connects the electric wp and expansion tank (I left it attached to the expansion tank) and drained coolant from there
5- disconnected the hose from the top of the electric wp and drained some more coolant from there also
6- I disassembled the cooling system: took out the fan, fan shroud, expansion tank, thermostat and water pump. More coolant came out of the orifices where the thermostat and water pump go.
7- removed the engine plug and drained more coolant
8- I poured 2 gallons of distilled water into the thermostat orifice



all the water came out from the engine plug getting rid of all the coolant that was left there.

9- I also did the same where the water pump goes.
10- I poured a gallon of NPG+ coolant into the thermostat orifice to get rid of all the water there. and poured about a quart into the water pump orifice.
11- Put everything back and filled up the system with NPG+ with about 1 gallon and 3 quarts.

I will be bleeding the system and filling up as necessary.
No more high pressure to worry about
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:39 PM
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Interesting...
Where did you get the Evans coolant from?
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:41 PM
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Good for you Airos.
Are you sure you got everything out also from the heater core?
I am planning on doing this soon - it's still cold here to this - but the way I was explained was after you drain everything, including the engine block drain plug removed, to take off the hoses that go to the heater core. You want as much coolant out as possible.

Nevertheless, props to you.
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  #4  
Old 04-01-2011, 08:57 PM
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Congratulations! Kudos to you for being one of the brave & bold, taking the waterless plunge for the team!

Do you have the high cluster? If so, what is your before/after reading on KTMP coolant temperature?

I, for one, haven't really comprehended the physics of the waterless philosophy, with regard to pros & cons; so I'm going to re-read these related threads to see if I can get a better handle on the physics & chemistry involved:
- Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+, by aioros ('99 528i)
- I did it! A zero pressure cooling system, by chiefwej (2003 540i/6 //m-tech)
- Solution to Exploding radiators (30psi/2.0bar pressure cap -> 20psi/1.4bar)
- The truth about Coolants (Evans NPG+ is 100% propanol and is thus non-aqueous)

For the record, I've read scores (or more) of cooling system threads and compiled what I think is a decent summary of what coolant to use. Like all summaries, it still needs work ... but I just now added the propanol references below for the record:

Quote:
E39 Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". EPA reports show San Jose & NYC tap water easily fulfill these requirements. The BMW TIS expressly states additives are not helpful and are not recommended. BMW lists a score of recommended coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04); but most of which are not easily found in the USA. Many Bimmerfesters recommend BMW coolant; however other Bimmerfesters recommend Prestone Extended Life 5/150, Valvoline Zerex G-05, and Service Pro Universal Formula. Others (e.g., chiefwej, aioros), have tested Evans NPG+ but be aware propanol entails a different maintenance philosophy than the aqueous fluids listed above and is not compatible with them. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.

Last edited by bluebee; 04-01-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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  #5  
Old 04-01-2011, 08:57 PM
aioros aioros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Interesting...
Where did you get the Evans coolant from?
From bavauto

Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
Good for you Airos.
Are you sure you got everything out also from the heater core?
I am planning on doing this soon - it's still cold here to this - but the way I was explained was after you drain everything, including the engine block drain plug removed, to take off the hoses that go to the heater core. You want as much coolant out as possible.

Nevertheless, props to you.
I believe the hose attached to the top of the electric water pump is one of the heater core, it goes to the firewall anyways; and 1 attached to the expansion tank also goes somewhere to the firewall.
Hoses #16 and #11 connect to the expansion tank. #16 connects to the electric pump and #11 connects to another hose. After those connections both hoses go to the fire wall.

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...38&hg=11&fg=35
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  #6  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:39 PM
aioros aioros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Congratulations! Kudos to you for being one of the brave & bold, taking the waterless plunge for the team!

Do you have the high cluster? If so, what is your before/after reading on temperature?

I, for one, haven't really comprehended the physics of the waterless philosophy, with regard to pros & cons; so I'm going to re-read these canonical related threads to see if I can get a better handle on the physics & chemistry involved:
- Changed OEM coolant for Evans NPG+, by aioros ('99 528i)
- I did it! A zero pressure cooling system, by chiefwej (2003 540i/6 //m-tech)
- Solution to Exploding radiators (30psi/2.0bar pressure cap -> 20psi/1.4bar)
- The truth about Coolants (Evans NPG+ is 100% propanol and is thus non-aqueous)
I think we posted at the same time, i didn't see your post after I posted mine.
Mmmh. What is the high cluster?
I believe that the temperature (or operational temperature) of the engine is not going to change. The whole cooling system will work the same, at the same temperature, and the engine as well. IMO the main reason to use NPG+ is NO PRESSURE, which eliminates most of the cooling system problems.
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  #7  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:50 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I, for one, haven't really comprehended the physics of the waterless philosophy, with regard to pros & cons; so I'm going to re-read these canonical related threads to see if I can get a better handle on the physics & chemistry involved:
-
Bluebee, the short version is that the Evans boiling point of 375 F means that the cooling system doesn't need to be pressurized to keep the coolant from turning into vapor (boiling) before it gets to the radiator to cool back down to operating temperature.

As aloros said, this means that the vulnerable plastic parts and hoses don't have the added problem of handling elevated internal pressures.
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  #8  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:29 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aioros View Post
What is the high cluster?
It's the 'two-button' E39 instrument cluster. You can get a double temperature sensor (DTS) reading (yes, two different KTMPs!) from the cluster once you unlock it as per QSilver7:
- High instrument cluster check of the cooling system temperature KTMP (1)

Here is a readout from mine, for example, from this thread:
- What is the temperature of the coolant & when the thermostat opens under normal conditions (1)



Quote:
Originally Posted by aioros View Post
I believe that the temperature (or operational temperature) of the engine is not going to change
Understood. I only ask because wyowolf (post #80 on 6/19/2010) said Evans NPG+ lowered his temperature "by a couple of degrees". However, in looking back, I see others (e.g., gtxragtop (post #37 on 5/30/2010) who say propanol "does not lower the operating temperature" of the engine. So I guess wyowolf was mistaken.

Still, it would be interesting, if you have the high cluster, to see the actual numbers from your dual temperature sensor (aka double temperature switch).
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  #9  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:40 PM
markg540i markg540i is offline
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Check engine light

Hey Bluebee why is your check engine light on?
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  #10  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
It's the 'two-button' E39 instrument cluster. You can get a double temperature sensor (DTS) reading (yes, two different KTMPs!) from the cluster once you unlock it as per QSilver7:
- High instrument cluster check of the cooling system temperature KTMP (1)

Here is a readout from mine, for example, from this thread:
- What is the temperature of the coolant & when the thermostat opens under normal conditions (1)





Understood. I only ask because wyowolf (post #80 on 6/19/2010) said Evans NPG+ lowered his temperature "by a couple of degrees". However, in looking back, I see others (e.g., gtxragtop (post #37 on 5/30/2010) who say propanol "does not lower the operating temperature" of the engine. So I guess wyowolf was mistaken.

Still, it would be interesting, if you have the high cluster, to see the actual numbers from your dual temperature sensor (aka double temperature switch).
Which setting number do you get the second reading from? I use #7. Every-time I start the car i enable that reading right after i put my seat-belt on. religiously
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  #11  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:02 PM
aioros aioros is offline
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Nope I don't have the high cluster, my cluster has 1 botton only.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2011, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whorse View Post
Which setting number do you get the second reading from?
It's all in that previously noted reference coolant-temperature thread:
- What is the coolant temperature of an E39 (I6 or V8) under normal operating condition

The theoretical explanation came from post #39:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jase007 View Post
According to the Bentleys, the dual-temperature sensor (DTS) provides a signal for the buffered dash temp gauge and a [different] signal to the DME for ignition/fuel management. The second signal to the DME complements the signal from the lower coolant hose coolant temp sensor.
So, note there are THREE coolant temperature sensors, in effect.
  • The half of the DTS on the engine block that feeds the DME
  • The other half of the DTS that feeds the buffered temperature gauge
  • The lower-radiator hose thermoswitch that feeds the DME to control the electrical auxiliary fan operation
Fortuitously, a practical application came out of a subsequent post #41:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TJJ View Post
OBC's ... shows the temperature from the one sensor ... only when car is running or when the ignition key is in position 2. But [the KTMP display] switches to the [other] sensor that the needle gauge uses when you put the key in position 1. ... This allows you to compare the readings between the two DTS sensors (which should, of course, show about the same value).

I accidentally discovered this ... One day I noticed my temperature was 88C when my car was running but immediately changed to 95C when I switched the ignition key to position 1 and it then went again back to 88C in position 2. I disconnected the DTS connector ... then with the ignition in position 2, the OBC showed -128C but in position 1 it showed -30C. I think this verifies that those reading are both coming from the DTS - but from different sensors.

I changed the DTS to a new one and now both readings are the same or there is a 1C difference between them.
BTW, did you know you can get the KTMP reading in both scales?
- How to change OBC MID IHKA KTMP temperature from Celcius to Fahrenheit (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8)

To aioros:
Sorry you don't have the high cluster; there are some who say you can still get exact temperature reading by connecting instruments to the OBDII port (see post #39 of this thread previously noted).
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Old 04-02-2011, 12:14 AM
Whorse Whorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
It's all in that previously noted reference coolant-temperature thread:
- What is the coolant temperature of an E39 (I6 or V8) under normal operating condition

The theoretical explanation came from post #39:


So, note there are THREE coolant temperature sensors, in effect.
  • The half of the DTS on the engine block that feeds the DME
  • The other half of the DTS that feeds the buffered temperature gauge
  • The lower-radiator hose thermoswitch that feeds the DME to control the electrical auxiliary fan operation
Fortuitously, a practical application came out of a subsequent post #41:



BTW, did you know you can get the KTMP reading in both scales?
- How to change OBC MID IHKA KTMP temperature from Celcius to Fahrenheit (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8)

To aioros:
Sorry you don't have the high cluster; there are some who say you can still get exact temperature reading by connecting instruments to the OBDII port (see post #39 of this thread previously noted).
Ah thank you, Now i know why it reads 1 degree off when i turn the engine off.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aioros View Post
the temperature (or operational temperature) of the engine is not going to change
For the record, over in the other Evans NPG+ thread, in post #210:
- I did it! A zero pressure cooling system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whorse View Post
Has anybody with an Oil TEMP gauge ever used the Evans stuff??? ... If we can confirm the OIL Temp is still the same as before the Evans coolant then we can confirm it "works" the same way as conventional coolant.
To that end, we do know, from post #51 of the E39 temperature thread:
- What is the coolant temperature of an E39 (I6 or V8) under normal operating condition

That 'some' E39s DO have an oil-temperature gauge (all with the 'high cluster' have the 'capability' to display an oil temperature).

My 2002 525i apparently does NOT have the oil temperature sensor but here is my cluster reading which shows the cluster 'capability':


Others DO have an oil temperature sensor, as described by RDL today:

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
My '03 530I M54 automatic transmission, definitely does have an oil temperature sensor. I have read the values with INPA and DIS. I've never tried through the instrument cluster.
And furthermore ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
My oil filter housing does have 2 sensors as indicated in the RealOEM link. WDS agrees that I should have oil temp sensing.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=11&fg=30
part #s 12 & 13 for pressure & temp


Since many are 'wanting' to go Evans NPG+ if it actually works but most (if not all) are just plain scared to move into uncharted territory, it's exceedingly interesting that aioros has taken the waterless plunge for us ... and it would be greatly useful to find out if the oil temperature is markedly different than with ethylene glycol water-based coolants.

QUESTION:
Has anyone any datapoints on E39 oil temperature before & after an Evans NPG+ switch?

Last edited by bluebee; 04-02-2011 at 08:21 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-02-2011, 03:45 PM
Whorse Whorse is offline
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Bluebee only M5's have the sender for that reading on the dash. I was wondering if someone with an M5 converted to Evans so we can confirm the oil temp is still normal. Even thought the Evans gets up to normal temp does not mean its absorbing the heat from critical places in the block. I doubt the oil temp would be different but i just want to make sure. There's gotta be a reason manufacturers don't use it. Is it alot worse on the environment than regular coolant?
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Old 04-02-2011, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whorse View Post
Bluebee only M5's have the sender for that reading on the dash.
Hmmm... are you sure? I have no clue but the realoem diagram above is from a 530i. Can a 530i be an M5?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whorse View Post
Is it alot worse on the environment than regular coolant?
We should look up the material safety datasheet (MDS) for propanol.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2011, 04:47 PM
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ive had 2 gallons of this stuff for a long time now, but i held off because dont know where the drain plug on the engine block is located...i bought mine from Mooneyes in Cali...it was $35 a gallon and shipping was reasonable to hawaii...
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:49 PM
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On a M54 engine it's item #4 here:
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
We should look up the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS)
Apparently Evans NPG+ ("Nonaqueous Propylene Glycol") is 'not' "100% propanol" (which was what someone had previously stated):
- All you wanted to know about Evans NPG+ (MSDS)!!

Quote:
NPG stands for Non-aquous Propylene Glycol which is the base ingredient of the original NPG

NPG+ is a blend, according to the MSDS it contains about 25% PG
Quote:
I emailed Evans requesting their NPG+ MSDS and they emailed it back to me. ... Keep in mind that NPG and NPG-R are different from NPG+.

Summary of ingredients:
  • Evans NPG+:
    • Ethylene Glycol 6670 %wt
    • Propylene Glycol %wt not specified
    • Water %wt not specified but from Evans webpage info it should be <3 %wt
    • Proprietary Corrosion Inhibitor Package <2 %wt
Hmmm.... that sounds suspiciously close to "regular stuff"; I wonder what's so 'different' about the Evans NPG+ blend. We need to dig deeper.

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Old 04-02-2011, 07:50 PM
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Here is another MSDS (3/24/2009) for Evans NPG+ from this location:
- PerformanceParts.LongBrothers.Com Evans NPG+ MSDS (pdf)
  • Evans NPG+ (non aqueous propylene glycol blended coolant)
    • Ethylene Glycol (66% to 70%)
    • Propylene Glycol (no percentage listed)
      • Must be roughly 28% to 32% based on these numbers
    • Water (less than 0.10%, i.e., 'essentially' water free)
    • Corrosion inhibitor package (less than 2%)
Relevant properties apparently are:
  • Boiling Point is 375F @ 0 psi
  • Freezing Point at -40F
  • Viscosity - 2.3cp @ 212F
  • Surface Tension - 44dyn/cm
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  #21  
Old 04-05-2011, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Here is another MSDS (3/24/2009) for Evans NPG+
For the crosslink record, a question was asked today about the toxicity:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > NPG+ temperature

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason5driver View Post
Is the NPG just as toxic as typical coolant?
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Old 03-27-2013, 04:01 AM
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To cross link the record, this was asked today:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guam135i View Post
Newbie question what is npg?
I tried to put all the abbreviations used in the E39 forum over here:
- BMW E39 technoterms, acronyms, glossary, definitions slang, technical terms, abbreviations (1)
But, interestingly, even though I spent perhaps 100 hours on that one thread, I didn't list NPG unfortunately - so you wouldn't have found it there.

Luckily, the bestlinks has everything you need at the touch of a keyboard.
Typing /npg F3 in the best links, for example, netted this:
- A picture of every failed part in the cooling system (1) & various techniques to properly bleed (1) (2) (3) & refill (1) & drain (1) (2) & flush (1) & what coolant to use (1) & all about propanol-based zero-pressure fluids like NPG+ (1) (2) (3) (4) (5)

Clicking on those five threads, we find out this about NPG:
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertobaggio20 View Post
8. There's a company called Evans that sells a zero pressure cooling fluid called NPG+ (this is a brand name). Its basically 100% propanol which (if i'm not wrong) is an isomer of ethyl glycol, and is thus non-aqueous i.e. does not involve any water. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
Well, I decided that if I run a zero pressure cooling system, I may not have to do that next cooling system overhaul. No pressure, no exploding radiator.

So I ordered a case of Evans NPG+ waterless coolant. Not cheap at about $120, but if it saves an overhaul............... The case was 4 gallons. It took 12 liters (or about 2 3/4 gallons) to fill the system. That leaves over a gallon for top-ups, since you can't add water or any other kind of coolant with Evans.

I fully drained the system, radiator, lower hose, block drains, and ran the heater pump to get it out of there. I must have got it all because Bentley says it holds 12 liters and that is exactly what I got in it. So everything must have been out and there can't be any air trapped in there. After the NPG+ fill I changed the 2 bar cap for a 1.4 bar one.

With a boiling point of 375 degrees there should never be any pressure in the system now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Bluebee, the short version is that the Evans boiling point of 375 F means that the cooling system doesn't need to be pressurized to keep the coolant from turning into vapor (boiling) before it gets to the radiator to cool back down to operating temperature.

As aloros said, this means that the vulnerable plastic parts and hoses don't have the added problem of handling elevated internal pressures.
So, given that I always try to put the answer to a question in the most likely place others will look for it, I'll add the following short description to the acronyms list:

NPG = A high boiling point (375F) waterless (ethylene glycol based) coolant used to keep pressures in the cooling system close to zero bar (aka Evans NPG+)

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Please read the suggested threads, where the best always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #23  
Old 03-27-2013, 06:56 AM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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I'm really confused here, but that's normal. Did the OP not say he put 2 gallons of distilled water into his system and then filled remainder with Evans or did I miss where he got the distilled water back out somewhere? The whole purpose is that you use 100% Evans and NO water, so why did OP use distilled water at any point?
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  #24  
Old 03-27-2013, 07:06 AM
caryalon caryalon is offline
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He used the distilled water to flush the old coolant. The distilled water drained out, then he filled with the waterless coolant.

Last edited by caryalon; 03-27-2013 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Spelling
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  #25  
Old 03-27-2013, 08:05 AM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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Oh, I see... Thanks. As long as he got 2.8 gallons in there he is good to go!
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